Irresponsible shops...

[Industrial]

I work in a highly successful LFS, and it is true that if a customer wants a big fish, nothing is stopping them.

My boss doesn't order ID sharks or pacus anymore because they get too large, and even the worst fish keeper can grow them large enough for size to be a problem. When we get sturgeons, RTCs and TSN in, we can literally sell out an entire tank in two days no matter how much I tell the customers that the fish will outgrow their tank even though it is a "huge 55 gallon". Most often, customers tell me "well I will get it anyways". Sometimes they just tell me I am lying. These same customers kill the fish within a month and buy new tank busters and at this point I give up on telling them the fish get too big, as they just don't care. Or even worse, sometimes customers go to a less than reputable store who flat out lies and they get the sale and the customer comes back and tells me that I was wrong.

My job has at least 3 groups of customers in at all times, and on a good day, I can talk to a knowledgeable customer who actually knows about the fish they plan to buy. For the most part, customers are highly ignorant and don't have any more interest in fishkeeping than "But this fish is bluer than that one" or "I am GOING to get that fish no matter what".

If stores just did sell fish to knowledgeable customers, the stores would fail very quickly. And anybody who has ever worked at a LFS will agree. And the true extent of customer ignorance as well as desire to buy fish they cannot care for can only be understood if you first hand have seen it.

And the sad truth is, everybody is at fault. Even us "responsible" fish keepers, are still guilty of plucking animals out of their natural environment and having them sent all over the world in nothing more than a bag of their own urine polluted water. And for every fish that we buy, hundreds of fish are sent to early deaths in a tank that has never been cycled, has fish that will eat it or live in a tank where it can only face one direction for the rest of it's shortened life because of it's size. By supporting the fish keeping hobby, you are supporting the stores who have no choice but to sell fish to abuse in order to stay open.

While shops do have some responsibility, we all need to get off our high horses and realize that we are just as irresponsible as the abusive shops we support.

By the way, I don't plan on slowing down in the hobby any time. I do however, realize the toll I am taking on fish and don't sit there blaming everybody but me.

[Barbie]

I do my best to offset any collection losses by spawning as many species as I can manage at any one time, and educating as many people as possible on the process I use. I also only ship fish Air Freight to minimize shipping trauma, and rarely have losses. I'm sure some of the fish that I sell are also lost, but seriously, a very small percentage of the fish that are hatched in the river systems are going to manage to mature to adulthood. I think it is just the nature that there are going to be some losses. All we can do is our best to minimize that, IMO.

As to staying calm and facing the customer that doesn't want to be educated, that one is easy, but that might be because I'm the shop owner AND head cook and tank cleaner ;). People are geared to having anything they are willing to pay for. If you can show them tactfully (and I have yet to master the art of telling someone to go to hell and have them looking forward to the trip, believe me!).

I just explain to him that we can make his tank interesting with pretty shiny fish that won't die and waste his money, but only if he's willing to bring me a water sample, so I can be sure the fish I have tenderly raised from little eggs will be safe ;). Most people assume that because there are fish happily swimming in their tank, the water will test fine. When you show them that they are 100ppm over the "unsafe" zone according to the test kit, it usually gets their attention. If it doesn't, I just smile and say "look, I don't print the bottles! I'd drive a much nicer car if I could just smile and put things in a bag!"

There are always going to be people I make mad with my "no fish for you!" stance here and there, but the ones that realize how much money I save them and the fact that I have ethics means they will be more successful, those are customers worth having.

You know, like the little boy that wanted to start a tank with big fish (a 10 gallon) so I loaned him a betta to cycle it. He's already planning his second tank and offering the betta to his little brother to help set up a tank in his room too ;). He didn't object when I limited him to adding 3 fish at a time, even though he's patiently waited through the cycling process. They're out there. Now to just keep reminding myself of that when I'm just burnt at both ends from dealing with the consistent people intent on sucking my will to live!

I guess what I'd really like people to think about is that yes, you CAN buy everything you need for your tanks online, but if you enjoy going through stores to look at things you can't keep and haven't seen before, remember, that shop is barely making it. A few dollars in sales can make or break their ability to meet their overhead. If you use them as a learning tool to be successful, make sure they get to stay around and help someone else! We have irresponsible shops because we have people willing to throw money at them. It costs me money (sometimes quite a bit) to continue to impress my personal ethics on people that couldn't care less what they kill, as long as it's bright and pretty.

Now, to go make those signs for my shop. You know, the ones that say "Technical support for your online purchase is available at google.com, or a base rate of $50/hour with a minimum 1 hour shop charge" and my favorite one "I have the ability to give two very good answers to your questions. The one you want to hear and the truth. Please be sure to tell me which one you would like, prior to asking your question."

Barbie

[macvsog23]

I have the ability to give two very good answers to your questions. The one you want to hear and the truth. Please be sure to tell me which one you would like, prior to asking your question.

Spot on

[nicofish]

Re: Irresponsible shops...

Postby Viktor Jarikov » Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:51 am
Pacu is from piranha family.

Perhaps, my English needs work but

Nicofish: "by far the best mistake was red belly pacu being sold as piranha."

on the contrary my english needs work.
im terribly sorry I am the worst writer.
what I meant was that there were piranha being sold as red belly pacu.
so the piranha were mislabeled.
sorry

[joefish72]

I pretty much agree with everything Matts said. Here in the U.S. they sell all sorts of fish at the big chain stores. Most of the employees are 16-22 years old and often have no knowledge of what they are selling. I used to hold my tongue when I would hear a salesperson say something like "that arrowana will do fine in a 55 gallon (200 liters) tank" when in reality they need something more along the lines of a 300 gallon (1150 liters) long, as a minimum. What the buyer doesn't know looking at the 6 inch fish is it can grow to 4 fet long and weigh about 12 pounds. The same goes for most larger cats like shovel nose.

Now I speak up and inform the buyer what they are getting into. Most times they are grateful for the advise.

[macvsog23]

I pretty much agree with everything Matts said. Here in the U.S. they sell all sorts of fish at the big chain stores. Most of the employees are 16-22 years old and often have no knowledge of what they are selling. I used to hold my tongue when I would hear a salesperson say something like "that arrowana will do fine in a 55 gallon (200 liters) tank" when in reality they need something more along the lines of a 300 gallon (1150 liters) long, as a minimum. What the buyer doesn't know looking at the 6 inch fish is it can grow to 4 fet long and weigh about 12 pounds. The same goes for most larger cats like shovel nose.

Now I speak up and inform the buyer what they are getting into. Most times they are grateful for the advise.

Well done mate
What amazes me is that people don’t read up about a fish before buying it?
Would you buy a Dog on impulse?

[Viktor Jarikov]

At Bob: dark humor: it's hard to flush a dog down the toilet and people dislike digging: it is messy and sweaty. Warm-blooded fury friends are more relate-able and may even have feeling, many believe, and show love and affection to the owner. Fish are viewed by vast majority as stupid, emotionless, cold, not caring for the owner.

At nicofish: no biggie but thanks for clarification. Yeah, some poor dude or dudess might have a scarring, both literally and figuratively speaking, experience having bought a piranha thinking they bought a Red-bellied pacu... Ouch!

At Industrial: a-ga... now I know more about you, my neighbor. So you are in the trade. While what you said is highly commendable in my book and noble and such, I disagree with you lumping good fish-keepers and bad ones in terms of responsibility. The line between good and bad is always there, may be muddled to various degrees, but it is there. Following your logic, we should condemn zoos, animal and fish conservation and breeding centers and programs, and the whole humankind that's killing off the whole Planet at an ever increasing rate that went exponential since the beginning of the 20th century. The conclusion is one and clear: everyone is bad and all is bad. There is nothing good and nothing good can be there. That's absurd and a slippery slope to depression and despair.