Red Lizard Cat Help Please (Rineloricaria sp. (L010A)

[Starsplitter7]

I hope this is the correct forum for this question. I don't know where these catfish are from. I have read the main write up on these fish as well as the breeding write up.

I bought four of these about a month ago, and they did fine for about 2 weeks. Then I lost one. Yesterday I found another dead one. (Both were in perfect shape.) I only have two left. They are in a peaceful 55 gallon tank with Cories, a regular Whiptail, Bristlenoses, (peaceful) loaches, . . . I feed a variety of foods including flake, frozen bloodworms and spirulina brine shrimp, Hikari Algae wafers, Shrimp pellets, zucchini, . . . I always see the Red Lizards -- on the glass and on the wood. They don't appear shy, and I have never seen another fish bother one. I have mopani wood, bamboos tubes, coconut huts, . . . as well as lots of other caves and hideouts.

My pH is between 6-6.5, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 20. The tank has been established for about 3 years. I have lots of Java moss. Most of the other plants are eaten. I have never seen the red lizards eat (besides what they are scraping off the glass and wood), but I assumed they must be eating.

I think I may move them to either my Bristlenose nursery or my quarantine tank where I have several very young, small peaceful fish in quarantine. Both tanks are heavily planted. The Bristlenose tank has a good colony of gammaras shrimp.

Could you give me any advice on what I can do for these incredibly beautiful and interesting fish? I would like to get a few more, but only if I can provide a decent habitat for them. I would like to enter them in our state fair in February, but only if I have them in good condition. Thank you.

[Barbie]

Were these fish quarantined before you introduced them? Have you recently added anything else? They are very sensitive to oodinium IME. Are there any signs of fraying in the finnage or thickened slime coat? Do they breathe hard?

Barbie

[Starsplitter7]

I normally quanrantine all my fish, and have two quarantine tanks set up right now, but I didn't quarantine them, because I knew where they came from. That was a mistake on my part, and I feel terrible. I was thinking about moving the remaining two to one of the quarantine tank. They were the last fish added to the tank, which has been established a long time.

They are in good shape, but very difficult to see, because of their small size and very slender bodies. I didn't see any tore fins or extra slime coat. I don't see any hard breathing. They swim around, hang out on the decore, and look perfectly happy.

Could you explain the term: oodinium. I am unfamiliar with it. Is it a type of infection? I got them directly from a wholesale distributor, who had them for several months with no losses.

Thanks for your response. Any more advice?

[MatsP]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oodinium

It's a parasitic infection that needs immediate attention.

--
Mats

[apistomaster]

Without actually seeing a clear photo of the fish in question I can't diagnose the problem but obviously sick fish worth saving should be quarantined and the appropriate treatment for the identified disease should begin immediately. The treatment for velvet, Ich and many other skin parasites is usually the same and safe bets to begin with. Nearly all disease problems and reconditioning new weak fish is best accomplished in a quarantine tank. If you practice quarantining all new fish for a couple weeks you will eliminate nearly all disease introductions and unexplained sudden deaths in your display tanks. Even a 5 gal tank is enough for most small species for a short few weeks.

These cool little Loricarids can be delicate when they are small and can not tolerate large and sudden changes in pH and hardness unless the changes are gradual. They actually have a wide ranging tolerance to different water conditions as long as it is clean. L10a appreciate having a brisk current from an air stone or small power head or both. They should only be kept with very peaceful fish which are not much competition for food. Ideally they do best when kept alone or with some shrimp but there are many smaller fish species which may be kept with them.
I recommend Hatchetfish, Pencilfish, Cardinal Tetras or similar Tetras. You don't need any Corydoras since the L10a do a good job of bottom feeding and I would avoid any large Bushy nose Plecos. I would remove Bushy nose after they reach 3 inches or before they become too large and assertive to frighten and drive the L10a away from the food. I think the slow Banjo catfish,

Bunocephalus coracoideus

and shy South American BumbleBee Catfish,

Microglanis iheringi

are good companion catfish. Also the more vegetarian catfish,

Farlowella acus

,

Hemiloricaria eigenmanni

and

Otocinclus hoppei

are safer than Bushy Nose plecos as algae eating tank mates.

Barbie helped me obtain my first 2 inch L10a but I was still new to this group of fish and I made mistakes and eventually lost all but one female. She later gave me a male which had it's tail eaten off and it lasted for another 3 years. That was about 6 years ago. My new group is now under much more experienced care and they are thriving. These are among my favorite catfish despite their lack of a clear cut pedigree.

The L10a are primarily carnivorous. I only feed mine frozen blood worms, earth worm sticks and live black worms. Last summer I bought 8 more 2 inch specimens and now they are young adults about 4 inches total length and I am hoping to breed them soon. I have one of my trios of Apistogramma trifasciata sharing the same tank. here is a male.

[Starsplitter7]

Thanks Mats,

Took a look and oodinium is the parasite responsible for velvet/gold dust disease. I pulled out a flashlight and turned off the lights, and the fish show no signs of velvet. So that's one thing I don't need to worry about. In my five years, none of my fish have had velvet to my knowledge.

I looked at the remaining two catfish very carefully with the flashlight and their fish are perfect. No torn fins, no hard breathing, good color, . . .

Thank you.

[Starsplitter7]

Thanks you for your response Apistomaster,

I am not entirely convinced the fish are ill. They show no signs of illness. No torn fins, good color and no heavy breathing. They do not have velvet or ick. The ones that passed looked perfectly fine too.

I do agree I should have quarantined them. I have two quarantine tanks running at this time. The tank they are in has two power jets, 2 bubblers and a regular filter. The tank mates are peaceful. But I will go ahead and move them to a quarantine tank as soon as I am able to catch them. I will drip acclimate them, so hopefully, they will not have problems with water chemistry. I do water changes on all my tanks every week or two at about 30%.

I could eventually turn one of the quarantine tanks into a shrimp and red lizard tank. That sounds excellent.

I do have three Banjo and 2 S.A. Bumblebees with the Red Lizards. Those fish have lived in the tank for 3 years or more. But I think that maybe the shy Red Lizards would have benefited from being in quarantine to give them time to adapt to a busier tank.

Thanks for the advice and your time.

[Barbie]

As a rule, healthy fish don't just spontaneously die without a cause. External parasites are going to be the most likely cause, IME. The fact that you don't see velvet on the fish does not at all mean that oodinium isn't present. I almost never see it on fish at the shop, but when sedated and scraped, they are crawling around on the slides, just the same. I use a product called Proform C (it's formulated for ponds and doesn't affect the biobacteria so negatively for some reason). The two fish that are surviving might just be the healthiest of the group. That can just mean they had less gill damage from transport and ammonia exposure, in some cases. Healthy fish will quite often have a few parasites on them when examined, but all it takes is a couple stress factors and the parasites get way out of control and overwhelm them. Without a microscope, you really can't tell for sure what you're dealing with, but the fact that half of the fish died would seem a sure sign there is a problem. If water quality is not the issue, then external parasites would definitely be where I would focus.

Barbie

[Starsplitter7]

Thanks to all of your for your advice and suggestions. I moved the remaining two Red Lizards to a well planted and cycled quarantine tank with 2 filters and a sponge filter.

They had been at the shop for three months without a loss to a group of about 30. They were in a bare tank with a filter and a piece of wood. I picked up three more from the original group, and so those had been at the shop for four months without a loss. Now I have a group of five in a well cycled quarantine tank. I drip acclimated all of them over a period of a couple hours.

I will look for Proform C to have on hand in my fish care kit.

I think because they had no losses over 4 months, my husbandry must be to blame. I am hoping that by moving them to quarantine I will have no losses. I am setting them up their own planted, well filtered tank. I am planning on two yellow tailed spiney eels as their companions (completely peaceful 4" eels). There shouldn't be a competition for food.

I have asked the shop keepers what they have been feeding them, and I am waiting for their reply.

Thanks again.

[apistomaster]

Offer them live black worms if you have easy access to them. They will quickly help any run down specimen to regain strength and will enhance their growth rates.
These are very much an aquatic insect larvae and worm eating Loricaridid.
Mine get pretty excited when I squirt a bunch into their tank.
Black worm feeding time is when I enjoy watching mine most.

[Starsplitter7]

Thanks. I picked up some live black worms on Monday, and so they have had black worms for a couple days. I also have live gammarus shrimp breeding in the tank. Hopefully they will like those too. I feed them frozen blood worms and spirulina brine shrimp. I always try to feed a variety of food. I am surprised with the shape of the mouth they are insectivores.

Mine like to spend time on the sponge filter and I have seen them hanging out on the plants and rocks.

Hopefully this new tank will help them out. They are really beautiful.

[Ankilam]

Thanks Mats,

Took a look and oodinium is the parasite responsible for velvet/gold dust disease. I pulled out a led flashlight and turned off the lights, and the fish show no signs of velvet. So that's one thing I don't need to worry about. In my five years, none of my fish have had velvet to my knowledge.

I looked at the remaining two catfish very carefully with the flashlight and their fish are perfect. No torn fins, no hard breathing, good color, . .

Thank you.

Should i must use the flashlight for looking the catfish ?
or I can use any torch light ? Plz reply me dude.

[Barbie]

You resurrected a 3 year old thread with a pretty unclear question. I suggest starting your own post and filling out the information requested in the sticky at the top of the forum. Thanks!

Barbie