L30 Breeding

[Mazzi]

My L30 have breed again. There`s only 2-4 fry hatching each time. Someone here that have the same experience?

[MatsP]

Congratulations on the spawn. We don't have any record of this fish being spawned at all, so I'm not sure if there's anyone else on the forum that have spawned this fish...

What do you do after they have spawned? Do you leave the eggs with dad, or hatch them in a fry container?
You could try the opposite: If you leave them with dad, try hatching them in a fry container, and if you are using a fry container, try leaving them with dad...

--
Mats

[Mazzi]

Congratulations on the spawn. We don't have any record of this fish being spawned at all, so I'm not sure if there's anyone else on the forum that have spawned this fish...

What do you do after they have spawned? Do you leave the eggs with dad, or hatch them in a fry container?
You could try the opposite: If you leave them with dad, try hatching them in a fry container, and if you are using a fry container, try leaving them with dad...

--
Mats

Thanks, it`s wery exciting that not so many have breed this species before.

I have try both. The problem is that they have company with other fish in a 400l tank, I dont think the other fish eat the eggs but i`m not sure. Last they spawned I empty the cave just when the fry hatched and I could not se any trace of more eggs, just the two that hatched. They will get ther own tank soon and I hope that would work better.
/Mats

[Mazzi]

I moved the male when he was guarding eggs to his own tank. After a few days, just when the eggs hatch he kick them out. I think he did the same in the big tank and thats have been the problem. 6-8 hatch this time, here is 2 of them.

[jac]

Congratulations

[Farid]

hey
really cool i also havent heard of spawning before...

good luck
farid

[Mazzi]

Thanks

[Mazzi]

Yesterday my L30 spawn again and today the male kicked out the eggs again Can it be better or is a few males like this?
I have the eggs in a frysaver at the moment.

I have big problems with the earlier fry. They grow wery slowly and I have found some dead fry. I will try to have the new fry in a bigger frysaver in the breedingtank and se if that helps. Maybe the have problems to find the food.

[Mazzi]

Can I use this snails to eat dead eggs?

[pleco_breeder]

The snails in the pic look like some type of trumpet snails and would likely eat both dead and live eggs. I've been experimenting with using cherry shrimp to keep eggs clean and artificially hatch them. I've only been trying this for about 6 months, but have had some very good results. Most of my artificial hatches have been whiptails kicked from the males cave and the eggs hatch normally, but usually a day later than the parent-raised eggs. I've also mentioned this to a couple others and have been told that it is also working with Hypancistrus and Ancistrus species. It may be worth trying with your L30 as well.

Larry

[Cristoffer Forssander]

Mats....
Perhaps there is something with the water ore anything else distrubing the male, that causes him to kick out the eggs. I would first make a water check. And if thats not the case, look for something else.

When my males have kicked out the eggs, it always caused by something in the water... som small food left overs...

Larry... please keep an update with the shrimps... I have been thinking about using them insted of shese horrible snails for a long time, but I haven't experienced them eating living eggs....




Cristoffer

[Mazzi]

The snails in the pic look like some type of trumpet snails and would likely eat both dead and live eggs. I've been experimenting with using cherry shrimp to keep eggs clean and artificially hatch them. I've only been trying this for about 6 months, but have had some very good results. Most of my artificial hatches have been whiptails kicked from the males cave and the eggs hatch normally, but usually a day later than the parent-raised eggs. I've also mentioned this to a couple others and have been told that it is also working with Hypancistrus and Ancistrus species. It may be worth trying with your L30 as well.

Larry

Interesting, maybe worth a try.

[Simon86]

Hi,
A friend just had a fry from his L30 too.
He thinks and mentioned, that the fry, once hatched, needs a lot of oxygen.
Half of his fry also died, once adding some more oxygen it got better.

Cheers Simon

[Mazzi]

Mats....
Perhaps there is something with the water ore anything else distrubing the male, that causes him to kick out the eggs. I would first make a water check. And if thats not the case, look for something else.

When my males have kicked out the eggs, it always caused by something in the water... som small food left overs...

Larry... please keep an update with the shrimps... I have been thinking about using them insted of shese horrible snails for a long time, but I haven't experienced them eating living eggs....




Cristoffer

Maybe thats the reason. How common is it that males kick out the egg/fry?

In the clump of eggs there is one white, whats best to take it out with?

/Mats

[Mazzi]

Hi,
A friend just had a fry from his L30 too.
He thinks and mentioned, that the fry, once hatched, needs a lot of oxygen.
Half of his fry also died, once adding some more oxygen it got better.

Cheers Simon

Ok, I can try to put in a extra powerhead. Do you know how his filtration looks like?

/Mats

[Cristoffer Forssander]

Mats....
Perhaps there is something with the water ore anything else distrubing the male, that causes him to kick out the eggs. I would first make a water check. And if thats not the case, look for something else.

When my males have kicked out the eggs, it always caused by something in the water... som small food left overs...

Larry... please keep an update with the shrimps... I have been thinking about using them insted of shese horrible snails for a long time, but I haven't experienced them eating living eggs....




Cristoffer

Maybe thats the reason. How common is it that males kick out the egg/fry?

In the clump of eggs there is one white, whats best to take it out with?

/Mats

I don't relly know how common it is, but I experience this from time to time and read about this on forums. As I'm building a sump to my aquarium an improving the filtration I hope that that this will be less frequent.

I use a tweezers (pincett) and pimpett, Metylene blue is also good to have. I actually have used Malaysian sandsnails with good result, but I'm not very keen to have them in my aquariums as they get stuck in filters, pumps and so on. I lost two nice L91 females this winter caused by a large snail that jammed the rotor in the circulation pump.

But if you're L30 breed, perhaps some small watherchanges every day can lower the toxics in the water. Otherwise, a fine net and metylene blue, having good air supply is the best way to keep them clean. I think that Ingos Back To Nature about L- numbers explains this in a very good way with both text and images.

Cristoffer

[Simon86]

Hi,
He uses a small frysaver filtered with a CZ airpump (don't know how to call in english).
Like the first image on this link:
http://www.l-welse.com/forum/faq.php?faq=aufzucht

For L30 he used an extra "air stone"? lol

Cheers Simon

[pleco_breeder]

With my limited experience with using cherry shrimp, it's not a matter of whether it works. I have had dozens of whiptail eggs kicked from the cave that hatched into well developed fry without the care of their father just by adding a few to the hatching container. The most recent was just this morning. My concern would be with those species that lay large clusters of eggs that are "balled up". I don't know that the shrimp would be able to get into those balls and clean the interior eggs. I'm waiting on my L183 to kick their eggs again before I try the shrimp method with them. That will be the real test. I still think there is a place for this method of artificial hatching as I have lost hundreds of eggs in the past because of not being able to keep them clean without the fathers care.

Larry

[apistomaster]

I keep colonies of Cherry Shrimp in breeding colonies of plecos and Corydoras hastatus and C. habrosus and I can assure you that they do no harm to prematurely ejected eggs, larvae and free swimming fry of any of these fish.
Sometimes I have not bothered to remove ejected eggs and they still managed to hatch and develop into healthy fry. The tanks conditions were only modestly clean, No special attention was given. This has happened most frequently for me in my L333 breeding tank where there are hundreds of fry from newly release fry to 2-1/2 inch juveniles present.Sometimes the caves contain 50 fish of various sizes and a brooding male. I suspect in a male's efforts to clear out the unwelcome older fry some eggs get ejected.

[pleco_breeder]

Here is the original article, minus pics, that gave me the idea to try this with my whiptails.

http://www.calypsofishworld.org/article ... _Eggs.html

Larry

[Mazzi]

Sounds great. I absolute must try the "shrimp method". I change some water yesterday and add an extra powerhead, today the male kick out about 10eggs further.

[apistomaster]

I enjoy just having a lot of Cherry Shrimp in my pleco or Dwarf Corydoras set ups for the added action and color they bring to what is a boring tank(Plecos sitting inside of caves aren't all that interesting) but they are also helpful at cleaning up bits of food the plecos may have overlooked. Besides it is easy to sell or trade shrimp so it makes a tank more productive too. There is a bright Yellow form of Neocardina arthropoda, same species as the Cherry Shrimp. Just don't let the Cherry shrimp breed with their Yellow form or you will end up with the plain looking wild type they were originally derived from.
One thing about shrimp is that they need a lot of plants like Hornwort, Java Moss or Najas to provide them with cover and increased surface area for their constant foraging. These plants also make good trading material or even sell the excess growth making the set ups even a little more productive.
I like trying to create simple but at the same time, ecologically more complex permanent types of breeding tanks wherever I can. I feed my L134 and Hypancistrus black worms placed in a custard dish. Some always escape the dish and begin colonies in the thin layer of sand or Florabase substrate I use. The thickness is usually only about 1/4 to 1/2 inch of substrate but its enough for the worms to colonize. They become especially thick where I usually drop in earth worm sticks.
These "feral worms" are then recycled when I hydrovac the substrate into a bucket. They will form a ball of worms after about 15 or 20 minutes which can be sucked up with a baster and fed to my Discus or other fish.
I have a lot more MTS snails than I wish but not a whole lot I can do about them. But they do add another link to the complexity of an aquarium's ecosystem.
Neither the shrimp nor the snails seem to harm the large Pleco eggs or the hard membranes of the eggs produced by Dwarf Corydoras species. I use similar set up for breeding some Killiefish. I am currently raising mostly annual Killiefish like Simpsonichthys and Nothobranchius species but I have a permanent type colony set up for my Fundulopanchax scheeli. This is a fairly new set up so I only have the breeders and 2 to 6 weeks old fry so far.

[Linus_Cello]

2 questions Larry:
Any experience or thoughts on keeping cherry shrimp with larger carnivorous plecos, such as Pseudacanthicus and Leporacanthicus?

And my understanding is that shrimp don't do too well in warm water (82-84 F); what do you do when the water gets too warm?

[apistomaster]

I do not have any experience keeping the large plecos except once upon a time I did own a 17-1/2"

Pterygoplichthys pardalis

. All my plecos are Hypancistrus no larger than L333 and Peckoltia L134.

Neocardina arthropoda can breed in temperatures as low as the mid 60's*F to 86*F. I keep and breed them in tanks which are usually at 84*F. Many other shrimp can not handle warm water. Best known example are the various color forms of Crystal Red Shrimp which do best in the low 70's*F.

[Mazzi]

My male has finally taken care of some youngsters a few tims now and some of them is really nice looking

Here is some pictures!

[Hellspawn]

Nice! Maybe the father had to learn how to take care of his eggs an juveniles?

I do keep shrimps in my tanks for cleanup work.