P. Maccus - Clown Pleco Breeding

[Liquid_Pyro]

So I have 1 pair of Maccus, which from what I can tell one male and one female and I would like to attempt to breed them.

I have read the article on this site about it, although I have a few questions:

It would appear my male is missing both his eye's (they were both gifts I dont know what happened), but is this going to be a problem?

I have a 46gal bow front with a few swordtails and mollies, alot of drift wood some 3M Color Quartz substrate and quite a few rocks and I have a bare 10gal tank, which should I use?

If I dont have a slate cave, can I use flower pots or PVC tubing? or what is best?

Also I have a submersible Elite Mini Filter, should this be aimed at the cave?

I have bred a few simple fish in my past like convicts, electric blue haps, yellow labs, zebra danio, ad livebearers...so I have some expereience, but any advice would greatly appreciated!

[DJ-don]

It would appear my male is missing both his eye's (they were both gifts I dont know what happened), but is this going to be a problem?

check if i has a sunken belly.
maybe its just sunken eyes that comes from the sunken belly which means it has worms
a picture will help too (of your tank and pair especially your male to check those eyes)
here is also thread i started about me asking what i should do with my tank etc.
even though its talking about my tank, it literally explains what needs to be done in any tank

[MatsP]

A blind fish (missing it's eyes) would probably not hinder breeding at all.

I wouldn't recommend keeping these in a tank of less than 20 gal.

However, platies, mollies and swords tend to like hard water, which is probably not ideal for breeding any pleco, and certainly these fish need fairly soft water to breed - I suspect this is why mine aren't breeding at this point in time.

I would say these fish really prefer hollowed out wood for a cave. Big drill and some suitable wood is what you should be looking for (or someone else having done that for you).

I would also consider that throughout the world, with the large number of keepers of this fish, there is only a handful of reports of successful breeding. There are LOTS of fish that are easier to breed.

--
Mats

[Liquid_Pyro]

Alright thanks Mat, I had just read the clown pleco article from this site and it made it out to be pretty easy sounding thats what really gave me the idea, i was ready to sell them up until i read that article...

[MatsP]

By all means, give it a go. I don't think they are particularly "special" when it comes to breeding - but they are kept by a fair number of people, and not many report breeding... I'd say the more common varieties of Peckoltia and Hypancistrus tends to be bred a fair bit more often...

--
Mats

[Liquid_Pyro]

I took some Pictures of both my Clown Pleco's and the 46gallon bow front tank as it is set up right now. I didn't take a picture of the 10 gallon as its just a bare tank with sponge filter.

Here is the link to the pictures:
http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/sh ... p?t=219017
(thought this was simplier to get the pictures up, dont know how to post in this forum yet)

The previous owner had these 2 little guys with a 7 inch electric blue hap plus 2 angry females and a number of electric yellows, I dont know if they are the culprits of the missing eye in my one Pleco or not.

So who has bred the clown pleco? and why does the article make it sound so easy?

Also how long could it take to breed? Roughly I know all things are different, I just dont know if I want to take the time on a possible lost cause

Also if I shouldn't start here breeding the clown pleco, what might be a better option that is readily available and not over the top expensive?

Lastly, someone mentioned a hollowed out log: how big should the hole be and how long should the log be? could I silicone a number of smaller twigs together to make a cave/tunnel?

[MatsP]

The thing about breeding ANY pleco is that if they decide to breed, you're pretty much done. The tricky part is to get them to lay eggs and hatch the eggs.

Now, unfortunately, it's very easy to say "I did some big water changes, added a power head, and kept them at XX temperature, fed them extra of this". But the "magic" part may be something that the author didn't even mention. Just to give ONE example, it may be a combination of the water change and the local weather conditions. The author of the report may not even have thought about the fact that the weather was changing.

Fish look in nice condition. And yes, I'd expect that one of the Rift Lake cichlids where the cause of the eye problem. Could be something else, without actually witnessing it, it's impossible to say. Seems like it's doing fine tho'.

I'd expect you could use the same (or similar) method to upload photo attachments here as you did on the other site.

--
Mats

[Liquid_Pyro]

Can you tell from the pictures if I have a male and female by the way?

[MatsP]

As far as I could tell, there was a male and a female (the blind one being the male).

Oh, and the cave size would be about 32mm/1 1/4" diameter drill bit. 28 mm / 1 1/8" may be another option. And say 3cm / 1 1/4" longer than the fish, give or take a bit.

Edit: I'd make a couple of different caves, at different sizes, so that the fish can choose....

--
Mats

[Liquid_Pyro]

If I shouldn't start here breeding the clown pleco, what might be a better option or options that are readily available and not over the top expensive?

[DJ-don]

Ancistrus cf_cirrhosus

or other wise known as the common bristlenose

just looking at your tank setup i would reccomend more wood.
and btw how did the male lose oth eyes?! poor thing

[Liquid_Pyro]

Not 100% as to how he lost his eyes, as I mentioned in an above post, both these fish unknowingly came with a tank I bought off someone a few months ago when I started getting more into this hobby, and were housed with some large cichlids.

Other than the common bistlenose, what else is there for breeding, to get a semi beginner into the world of breeding?

I will eventually attempt these clown pleco's but what might be a halfway between the two? (clown and bristle).

[MatsP]

Once you have successfully raised a few batches of Bristlenoses, then (smaller) Peckoltia and Hypancistrus are a good choice. They are "medium" difficulty to breed. Biggest problem is finding both sexes.

--
Mats

[Liquid_Pyro]

awesome, thanks mats, I will keep my eye's out for some bristlenose

[Liquid_Pyro]

Hey I know its been awhile, I have been quite busy with other fish stuff, but I really plan on setting up this L-104 tank...

I will post pictures, but I dont have much hope as I only have the spare 10 gal tank, just something to try...as I haven't been able to find any reasonably priced Bristlenose, Peckoltia or Hypancistrus.

Is play sand my best bet as well? is that sort of the most common used in breeding plecos?

[MatsP]

For most plecos, I don't think the substrate is particularly important - as long as you have SOME substrate.

A 10g tank is a little bit on the small side, but a single pair with little or not other fish, and good filtration should work.

--
Mats

[Liquid_Pyro]

since I have never attempted this...what would you consider good filtration?

would a fluval 205 be way too powerful? Would attaching a DIY spray bar to it even out the flow enough or should I just stick with my HOB filters?

[MatsP]

In my P. maccus tank, which is about 26g (but actual volume is probably about 22g - not counting the wood-displacement). It has a 1500 lph/400gph power-head in the tank (and centralized filtration system that pumps about 70-100 gph).

I'd say the Fluval 205 or the Eheim Classic that is similar size, e.g. the 2213.

--
Mats

[Liquid_Pyro]

whoa whoa, so mats this whole time you have had a p. maccus tank as well?

I would take it then you have not been able to get them to breed yet? or are not trying?

Hopefully I will have it all set up and running by the weekend...

Any other suggestions?

[MatsP]

I have had eggs from them on at least two occasions, but "dad" has kicked the eggs out, and I haven't been able to hatch them.

I have been trying to induce a spawn by lowered water temp and conductivity over the last few weeks (because they seemed to be "interested"), but not much happening at the mo'.

--
Mats

[Birger Amundsen]

I bred them in quite a large number some years ago, once they stared, they didn`t stop Mine would NOT breed in anything else than a bamboo cave, about 200mm long, stuck in an angle down in the sand.

[DJ-don]

I bred them in quite a large number some years ago, once they stared, they didn`t stop Mine would NOT breed in anything else than a bamboo cave, about 200mm long, stuck in an angle down in the sand.

My male L104 has actually resided in a bamboo cave which is about 20cm and about 2-3cm in diameter.

i've been seeing females around the males caves these days but havent seen them actually in them.

[Liquid_Pyro]

So now I am going to have to go out and find some bamboo I guess...

Thanks guys this is great info...

Could you give me any more info Birger? Pictures even?

I cant wait to give this a try and if it doesn't work out I know there is a fish auction coming up in October so I am pretty interested in going to that and seeing whats there...wouldn't mind picking up a different group of interesting plecos that I could try breeding if this doesn't work out...I dont even know how old my P.Maccus are so that might hinder my efforts right off the bat.

[krazyGeoff]

Hi Liquid_pyro,
Mine are breeding in a D shaped pottery cave (No glaze) that is 32mm across and about 16 mm tall. It is 10-13cm long. Another is breeding in a rectangle slate cave that is a little bigger than the D shaped cave. The caves are about 5 cm apart and are both in the flow of a powerhead after it deflects off the wall of the tank.
The tank is a standard 4 foot.
The powerhead is 2,500 Ltr/Hr
Both pairs are breeding so that when one has fry with yolk sack then the other has eggs.
Other than being Winter here, they were being kept at 29+ degrees C for 6+ months, and as soon as the temperature lowered to 27.5 and below they seemed to start spawning.

Cheers

[Liquid_Pyro]

Wow this is really inspiring thank you everyone!

would you happen to have a picture of your caves "krazygeoff"? I think that would really help me out

thanks again

what about feeding, just the normal plecos foods or anything unique to the P. Maccus?

[DJ-don]

i only feed cucumbers and or hikari algae wafers. i dont wont to risk bloat so cucumbers are always the way to go.
you could try zucchini but you need zucchini with a big middle or it will just leave a big mess in your tank because they wont eat it. except they will take bites at the skin. although zucchini is better, it doesnt wreck the water like zucchini and the L104's will eat the middle and will also eat the skin too but not really the harder flesh.

if you want to condition fish with high protein foods, i would reccomend you use hikari's spirulina brine shrimp. it has the high protein content and also has a small bit of spirulina which will help with the fish' digestion. blood worm i say is dangerous because they have hooks on their end which means they could get caught inside, but thats what i heard about bloodworm

[Birger Amundsen]

This is the bamboo cave they spawned in... Now it`s inhabited of a male L-180?

[Liquid_Pyro]

What about clay caves?

Is their an aquarium safe clay that I could get from a craft store? I found one earlier today that cures in you oven, I have tried looking around on the internet but I cant seem to find anything, about whats safe...even looking around on this forum I haven't found much, is there no DIY section or anything if not I am kind of surprised

[krazyGeoff]

Hi there,







Conditioning (for me) novafect, novafect, novafect, and good water maintenance.

Cheers

[Liquid_Pyro]

whats novafect?

anyone know about DIY clay caves?

I have been looking into foods for the L-104 and I was wondering do the vegetables have to be boiled/cooked? (squash, cucumber, zucchini anything else?)

What else is everyone feeding theirs, I just want to try and mix up their diet a little as I haven't payed much attention to it thus far and feel bad.