Fishless Cycle Help Pls.

[Bas Pels]

going from ammonia - wht fish excrete, first you need bacteria to turn it into nitrite, and then other bacteria turn it into nitrate - which is rather safe

the first group of bacteria is fast growing, the latter is not. So I get the idea your tank did the easiest part of the cycling - it has abundand nitrite bacteria, but it is still growing nitrate bacteria. Actually, precisely as I expected it to develop

[tbone87]

Thx, may i ask if using just one hob filter with more than 6X turnover rate is enough?

[MatsP]

Thx, may i ask if using just one hob filter with more than 6X turnover rate is enough?

Enough for what?

Until your tank is cycled, messing with filters etc is just going to prolong the process - unless the filter is SERIOUSLY under dimensioned for your tank, it's not going to make any difference what it is, as long as it's got "biological filtration properties" (and all common filters for aquarium use do have this, at least if used correctly).

Right now, there is nothing you can do to improve things beyond big water changes - twice or three times a day if that is what is needed to keep the ammonia/nitrite levels at reasonable values.

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Mats

[tbone87]

I meant whether the filter is sufficient enough to move all the water in the tank. My hob has the sponge filter materiel in it. Is that enough?

[MatsP]

I meant whether the filter is sufficient enough to move all the water in the tank. My hob has the sponge filter materiel in it. Is that enough?

Yes, somewhere between 3-10x turnover rate is generally what is recommended except for special cases (e.g. fish that need very high oxygen levels or fish that don't like moving water at all - bubble nest builders for example do not tolerate much water movement at all when nesting).

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Mats

[tbone87]

It is to my understanding that other filter materials like bio balls only provide surface area for bacteria to grow on. Do they have other use?

[MatsP]

It is to my understanding that other filter materials like bio balls only provide surface area for bacteria to grow on. Do they have other use?

Well, anything that catches "particles" will work as a mechanical filter, and bio balls WILL do this, but not at all as well as foam. Again, at this point in time, using a different form of filter media is just going to make things worse.

Sponge/foam is the most generic form, along with "floss" (the stuff that looks like coarser cotton wool). Both act as a media/surface for growing bacteria as well as working as mechanical media.

Just keep going as it is.

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Mats

[tbone87]

Thx Alot man. Appreciate it. Someday when i go pro i will help others

[tbone87]

I noticed brown sludge on my filter medium, what is it? Do i clean it? Is it harmful to my fish? Water is still clear, tank is still cycling though im happy to say that ammonia is a constant 0. Nitrites are deatlt with daily water changes.

[MatsP]

I noticed brown sludge on my filter medium, what is it? Do i clean it? Is it harmful to my fish? Water is still clear, tank is still cycling though im happy to say that ammonia is a constant 0. Nitrites are deatlt with daily water changes.

The brown sludge is a sign that you have good bacteria in the tank. I'm not entirely sure if the sludge itself IS living bacteria or just other "rubbish", but it's a good sign. Don't clean your filter just yet. Leave it until you have had zero ammonia and zero nitrite for at least a week. And remember, always clean your filter media in tank-water.

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Mats

[tbone87]

Thx for the reply Mats,

When i wash the filter media, just a rinse will do? Or thorough cleaning? And what timeline would be good for cleaning? Once in a month?

[MatsP]

How often you clean the filter depends on how quickly the filter gets dirty - which depends on the type of filter and the stocking in the tank - even different variants of the same basic filter can be very different in their need of cleaning - I have an Eheim internal filter, and whilst it is much less sensitive to cleaning cycles than the Fluval 3+ filter that I also have in a similar setup.

In most cases, the sign of "needs cleaning" is that the filter is not flowing as much water as it used to. Some filters seem to loose all their flow in a week, others (like big external/canister ones, with low stocked tanks) can go months without cleaning. I cleaned one of my external filters yesterday, and I can't remember when I last cleaned that particular filter - but it's certainly before Christmas.

You need to rinse it out fairly well, so that it's no longer "clogged up".

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Mats

[tbone87]

Ok, once again i need advise..

I came home just now, turned on my room lights, then i saw 2 small creatures crawling on the side of the tank. Upon closer look, they turned out to be snails.. Im freaking out, did i do smth worng? I have a live plant in the tank, but its been 2.5 weeks with no snails, wh are they here now? Ima get violent on them if they are here to harm my baby rtc.

[2wheelsx2]

The snails are hatching from eggs on your plants.

[MatsP]

As long as it's only one or two snails, it's not really a problem. If you get hordes of them, you need to reduce the feeding of your fish - and perhaps start collecting them and disposing of them. Do not use chemicals to kill them - and if you need to medicate the tank, and you have lots of snails, it's highly recommended to get rid of the snails before adding the medication (or very shortly after), so that you don't get a whole load of dead snails making pollution all at once. Many medications kill snails, especially the ones against parasites (Ich, flukes, etc).

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Mats

[2wheelsx2]

Or you can get an Assassin snail which should take care of your snail problem. I did that, and it worked until my L066 decided they liked snails.

[tbone87]

Thx guys for your replies, well it seems the snails only come in twos. Small problem.

One more question i hope you can kindly answer for me..

When i got my juvenile rtc, he often hid inside his cave (PVC pipe). I noticed recently he swims out much more, especially after feeding, the guy goes on a patrol around the tank. Is this normal for a catfish? Im looking at this from a possible tank problem point of view.

[MatsP]

Thx guys for your replies, well it seems the snails only come in twos. Small problem.

I'd expect the number of two is not going to last...

When i got my juvenile rtc, he often hid inside his cave (PVC pipe). I noticed recently he swims out much more, especially after feeding, the guy goes on a patrol around the tank. Is this normal for a catfish? Im looking at this from a possible tank problem point of view.

I'd say that's normal behaviour - but I've never kept this type of fish myself, so I could be wrong.

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Mats

[tbone87]

well i might consider replacing the live plant with a fake one, if it helps to deal with potential snail problems.

I would also like to thank everyone who has helped me thus far, I am now happy to say that my ammonia and nitrite levels are 0.

[Suckermouth]

well i might consider replacing the live plant with a fake one, if it helps to deal with potential snail problems.

Unless the snails are eating the plant, this won't help very much. Live plants may carry snails, but they don't necessarily help them once they're in the tank.

[MatsP]

The reason that the snails "came with the plant" isn't that the plant helps snails - it's just that plastic plants aren't kept in water when they growl, so there aren't any snails there. Removing your plants will not alter anything. Any plant grown in water is likely to have snails on them...

Great to heat that your cycle is now complete.

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Mats

[tbone87]

I hope you guys dont mind me posting questions in the form of replies to this topic.

But here's 1 more.

Shld I add a sucker fish / pleco (I AM VERY NOOBZ IN PLECOS) to my tank? I head sucker fishes and some plecos do tank maintenance by eating waste (doubt it). But ultimately would be nice for my RTC to have a friend.

Or am i completely wrong here, does the RTC not need friends?

[Bas Pels]

As RTC are predators, I think they will prefer to be alone. All fish they meet are either food, competition or a threat

Plecos don't eat dirt, but some do eat left overs, further many eat decaying wood - some of them need to be able to gnaw wood - and algae on the window.

So they do perform maintenance, but they can get eaten by the RTC as well

Pterogoblichthys gibbiceps, for instance, which do eat wood and left overs, will grow to 17 cm / 7 inches in a year, 40 cm / 16 inches in 4 years, given enough room and food, but in the end, the RTC will get over a meter, more then 40 inches, and eat it

[tbone87]

I have a small question.

I bought my RTC together with my friend, who also got one.

However, both our RTCs have different growth rate. Mine seems to be much larger and active than his. We bought it at almost the same size.

Im using a 2 FT tank currently, he is housing his in a 1.5Ft.

Anyone can enlighten me pls?

Note: Dont flame about tank size, we knew what we got ourselves into when getting the RTC.

[Suckermouth]

It could be anything. Greater amounts of food, higher temperatures, even having more water changes, and individual differences. could all be factors that could increase the growth of your fish.

[tbone87]

Hey guys, i got another question.

This time its about temperature.

Right now my area is having some weird hot weather.

The stick on thermometer on the tank is at 32 degrees, sometimes up to 34.

My fish does not move at all, though i try to use common sense, at higher temps, O2 levels are lower, hence the fish stays still in order to save O2 consumption.

he still eats out of my hand, no behavior change, apart from keeping still.

I try to do water changes with cooler water, blowing a fan directly on it, and im not leaving the cover on anymore. My RTC is swimming around again, but this is just a short term measure.

Anyone can advise long term measures?

I got loads of commitments in my life, hence I cant be at home all the time to monitor water temp.

I was considering using small tied up bags of chilled water to float in the tank, maybe that will help. Anyone can advise?

Thx in advance.

[MatsP]

Having a BIGGER tank will help to some extent (because it takes longer for it to get warm - but also keeps its temperature longer), but ultimately, lowering your indoor temperature or keep adding cool water to the tank is the only solutions that will work.

Some people take a large drinks bottle, fill with water and then freeze it, and put it in the tank. For a 10-20g tank, you probably don't want more than a 1 liter (or so) bottle, but it will work similar to ice-cubes in a drink and cool it down.

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Mats

[Richard B]

Stick on thermometers can be inaccurate if room temperatures are very warm - they register room temp not tank temp - an internal thermometer is the better option

[MatsP]

Stick on thermometers can be inaccurate if room temperatures are very warm - they register room temp not tank temp - an internal thermometer is the better option

Actually, being very pedantic: it will show some sort of "average between", since the thermal conductivity from water through the glass is much better than the air. And it works the other way around too - if he air is cool, the external thermometer will show a lower temperature. But it won't be very far off unless there is a HUGE difference in air and water temperature.

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Mats

[2wheelsx2]

Another reason to use an external controller if you have valuable fish. The prob tells me exact what temp it is inside as I keep the probe close to a filter outlet.