Tatia sp "Ninja"

[Yann]

Hello!!

I have seen this fish on a stock list and was wondering if anyone has an idea at what does it look like?
Anyone aware of a picture of these??
Cheers
Yann

[chef]

Hi Yann

These could be Tatia nigra which have appeared here in recent weeks. Not sure of the i'd of these fish offered here though.
Regards
Stuart

[MatsP]

If they are what was available as "T. nigra", it really isn't that species - at least not according to the key offered by "The Dark One" in a previous thread.

--
Mats

[kruseman]

Is this the one?




That's one beautifull catfish.


http://www.aquariumglaser.de/de/news.php?news_id=264

[Marc van Arc]

http://www.aquariumglaser.de/de/news.php?news_id=264

One can hardly blame anyone for not knowing the difference between Tatia and Centromochlus.
But this C. sp. ninja is indeed a gorgeous auchenipterid
Likely to be an expensive species....
Thanks Arjan!

[wrasse]

But if it had 4 legs it would moo!

But seriously, a nice looking cat.

[Marc van Arc]

Yann,
This is very likely Centromochlus concolor or something very closely related.
I've been checking some books and pictures.
Thing is that I can't make out if the stunning pattern remains.
Mees called it "the plainest Tatia" wrt to pattern: grey on top; white below.
Mergus 6 has a picture (sitting under Tatia aulopygia); page 471 bottom picture.
The Japanese Catfishes of the World book has 2 pictures of Tatia sp cf concolor on page 104: one with the striking "cow" pattern and one with a pattern that looks like Mees' description.
See below for three Tatia/Centromochlus (cf) concolor pictures from "my" internet picture collection.

The attachment Centromochlus-1.jpg is no longer available

Credit of picture 3 is unknown to me.

[Yann]

Hi Marc!!!
many thanks!!!
look very interesting indeed!! I ll try to get some!!
Cheers
Yann

[Marc van Arc]

Likely to be an expensive species....

And so it is. I saw it on a Swiss (wholesaler? - hope not) stocklist for 80, 30 (euros)

On a side note: I emailed Glaser with the probable correct name, yet Ingo Seidel thought it was an undescribed species. He had seen and examined the type specimen of C. concolor and there was no match.
Which may be the case, hence the note on Mees' description above: plain colour pattern in small specimens.
Conclusion: name uncertain; remaining of gorgeous "cow" pattern doubtful.

Thanks to Herr Frank Schäfer for replying.

[Jools]

Anyone seen them in the UK?

Jools

[The.Dark.One]

Yann,
This is very likely Centromochlus concolor or something very closely related.
I've been checking some books and pictures.
Thing is that I can't make out if the stunning pattern remains.
Mees called it "the plainest Tatia" wrt to pattern: grey on top; white below.
Mergus 6 has a picture (sitting under Tatia aulopygia); page 471 bottom picture.
The Japanese Catfishes of the World book has 2 pictures of Tatia sp cf concolor on page 104: one with the striking "cow" pattern and one with a pattern that looks like Mees' description.
See below for three Tatia/Centromochlus (cf) concolor pictures from "my" internet picture collection.

Centromochlus-1.jpg

.

Marc, my picture definitely shows Centromochlus macracanthus (male). I have had it confirmed by the ichthyologist that described the species. An image of what I consider to be the female can also be found on my link in my signature bar.

[Marc van Arc]

Thanks Steve for clearing that up.
Next question is: do you think that your fish is an older/adult specimen of the "cow"-patterned specimen?
I see a lot of similarities between the two. You too?

[The.Dark.One]

Hi Marc

You are welcome.

I do see similarities but at the size mentioned by Glasers in the link for Ninja, C. macracanthus does not have the pattern of the Ninja. It has a similar colour and pattern as the adult in my picture. Therefore I think they are separate species. On the basis that my C. macracanthus did not undergo a major colour/pattern change I have a feeling that Ninja may stay similar too, albeit perhaps not as striking.

Very nice. Wouldn't mind some myself. No doubt they have all been snapped up!

[Luis.Ventura]

Glaser is asking a modest 108€ each since its theirs first time whit this specimen

and yes they are stunning

[lfinley58]

[img]tatia%20m001.jpgtatia%20m001.jpg[/img]

Hello all.

For your possible interest I have included a drawing from the original description of the Venezuelan species Tatia musaica. The species name musaica refers to the coloration being in the form of a mosaic pattern. While there are some obvious differences from the photos of Tatia sp. "Ninja", there are also some interesting similarities. I certainly have no hard opinion on how these catfishes might relate to each other and post the picture just as a potential to forward the discussion. In the original description there is a lengthy section on the color pattern of the species and I will translate this and post it when finished.

Lee

[lfinley58]

Hi again,

I wanted to make a quick note on the taxonomic status of Tatia musaica. Ferraris, in his checklist, placed the species in Tatia. But Sarmento-Soares and Martins-Pinheiro, in their revision of Tatia (2008), while considering it as a valid species, did not place it in the genus Tatia. Their designation of the species is as follows: "Centromochlus" musaicus [incertae sedis in Centromochlinae]. The designation incertae sedis means of uncertain placement. Based on other writings of Sarmento-Soares It would seem a good chance that this species will some day end up in a newly created genus.

One other consideration: In Royero's original description the largest fish examined was was 47.1 mm Standard Length. The photos of the "Ninja" do appear to show larger fish.

Later, with some color notes.

Lee

[The.Dark.One]

Mmm, very interesting Lee. Thanks for pointing that out.

There are similarities with the pattern, albeit some differences too. The pectoral and dorsal fins on the specimen in the drawing do look more Tatia like, albeit that is a small specimen.

Definitely something to consider though.

[The.Dark.One]

Anyone got any up to date images of these fish now they have been in aquariums for some time? As mentioned before Luisa thought they were young. C. macracanthus, but my C. macracanthus did not look as striking as that when young. Here is a type of C. musaica:

http://acsi.acnatsci.org/base/getthumbn ... get=358914

[Yann]

Unfortunately I couldn't get some specimens of these...whish I had...

Glaser don't have them anymore...
Hopefully they will be able to get some more again as they were sold quite rapidly despite their important price...

Cheers
Yann

[ZaldyKhan]

I will get some breed to this one. It seems interesting .