Synodontis tanganicae -- Looking for information, more pics

[emartin]

Synodontis tanganicae

I'm looking for more information, more pics, etc. Please don't link to the profile I've already have seen it.

Other than from importers lists I have only seen pics of this species on this website.

How do you tell them apart from similar species like S. multipunctatus, etc? (other than the adult sizes)

Will one single specimen be fine in a 7ft tank by itself (itself meaning no other catfish other than a ABN pleco, and 3 Clown Loaches)???

Is this species an active species?

Can and will this species prey on fish? What's the smallest fish you'd feel comfortable putting in a tank with a 20" S. tanganicae?

I'm getting one wildcaught one about 3-4". Does $41usd seem like a fair price for that species at that size?

Also should I even bother thinking about breeding these? I obviously have the tank for it, not the cash for the extra specimens and not the time. Just wondering if this species has been bred in captivity or not.

Thanks,
~Ed

[MatsP]

There was a thread on this species just a few days ago - it should be within 5 down from this in this forum (African Catfishes).

--
Mats

[Richard B]

Synodontis tanganicae

I'm looking for more information, more pics, etc. Please don't link to the profile I've already have seen it.

Other than from importers lists I have only seen pics of this species on this website.

How do you tell them apart from similar species like S. multipunctatus, etc? (other than the adult sizes) primarily head shape will give this away but an experienced eye can pick up many differences

Will one single specimen be fine in a 7ft tank by itself (itself meaning no other catfish other than a ABN pl*co, and 3 Clown Loaches)??? Probably but what are the water conditions? It will wany hard alkaline water with some rockwork which might not suit the clowns - i'd get as many as you can for a 7 foot
Is this species an active species?

Can and will this species prey on fish? What's the smallest fish you'd feel comfortable putting in a tank with a 20" S. tanganicae? It'll take years & years to reach that size - i personally wouldn't be bothered about it occasionally snacking on any fish as this species would be my priority - it is not a predatory fish so it shouldn't bother other fish if kept well fed - & it depends on what fish you are talking about - i think a 1" agamyxis would be ok but a 4" cyprichromis might be in danger (as an example)

I'm getting one wildcaught one about 3-4". Does $41usd seem like a fair price for that species at that size? Sounds an absolute bargain

Also should I even bother thinking about breeding these? I obviously have the tank for it, not the cash for the extra specimens and not the time. Just wondering if this species has been bred in captivity or not. If you never try to breed you'll never succeed - i don't think this has been bred but one of the tanganicae/dhonti /irsacae clade has according to one thread in the african section

Thanks,
~Ed

Answers in red font above. Of course all this depends somewhat on whether the fish you get is actually tanganicae or an unidentified close relative - the Tang syno ID situation is a bit of a mess.

Just post some pics when you get it (them?) for us to enjoy & comment on

[Birger]

This is the thread Mats mentioned...I am guessing you are using the same supplier.

http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... =8&t=28476

Birger

[Dinyar]

(edit) ... i don't think this has been bred but one of the tanganicae/dhonti /irsacae clade has according to one thread in the african section

I know that these names are often used together by hobbyists, but is there any evidence that these three species do in fact belong to one clade? And a separate question: which of these species has been bred in the aquarium?

[nfrost]

You should check out the other thread for lots of photos.

I got 8 of these guys from Atlantis, which is where I am guessing you are looking at these; I would act quickly they probably won't last long.

The only question it looks like Richard didn't answer was: how active they are. My group of 8 is almost as active as my group of 9 lucipinnis and way more active than my two groups (one with 4 and one with 5 members) of polli. I don't know how one fish will act though. I am sure if you got a group of another lake tang syno, example: 5-6 multis, then it would be just as active as the other fish in the group.

[emartin]

You should check out the other thread for lots of photos.

I got 8 of these guys from Atlantis, which is where I am guessing you are looking at these; I would act quickly they probably won't last long.

The only question it looks like Richard didn't answer was: how active they are. My group of 8 is almost as active as my group of 9 lucipinnis and way more active than my two groups (one with 4 and one with 5 members) of polli. I don't know how one fish will act though. I am sure if you got a group of another lake tang syno, example: 5-6 multis, then it would be just as active as the other fish in the group.

Peter is already holding a 4" one for me. I'm just getting one for now.

Going to pick it up tomorrow!

[Richard B]

And a separate question: which of these species has been bred in the aquarium?

http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... 55#p180355 is the post where the Danish guy says he has discovered fry - it took a while to find the thread sorry

[Dinyar]

And a separate question: which of these species has been bred in the aquarium?

http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... 55#p180355 is the post where the Danish guy says he has discovered fry - it took a while to find the thread sorry

Thanks, Richard. I hadn't seen this post before. Also a very interesting fish, but again I have no idea as to the species. Sid is usually on the money when it comes to Tanganyikan Synodontis, but I wouldn't call this fish "S. lacustricola". It's probably true that a lot/most of these unidentified Tang Synos are breedable in the aquarium.

[Richard B]

And a separate question: which of these species has been bred in the aquarium?

http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... 55#p180355 is the post where the Danish guy says he has discovered fry - it took a while to find the thread sorry

Thanks, Richard. I hadn't seen this post before. Also a very interesting fish, but again I have no idea as to the species. Sid is usually on the money when it comes to Tanganyikan Synodontis, but I wouldn't call this fish "S. lacustricola". It's probably true that a lot/most of these unidentified Tang Synos are breedable in the aquarium.

Yes considering it is a significant event it was rather lost. I suspect that many synos are capable of being bred now that exporters are supplying species in numbers & dedicated 'keepers are housing groups not just the one of these & one of those & one of the other type of collections of synos.

[emartin]

Here's some more pics of the 5 they had left at Atlantis (I only bought two).

They also had an AWESOME Synodontis granulosus breeding tank setup with two of the S. granulosus being 8-9" long head to tail!!!! Just awesome. I hope they have luck with that. Peter said he wants to give them a couple months in there to get them to breed before even thinking of hormoning them (Currently the only other fish they hormone breed are their wildcaught true S. petricolas (beautiful specimens!)). I wish them luck and told Peter to keep me on top of the "dibs" list for the fry LOL.

His Ctenochromis benthicola (put into a new genus now not sure which) F1 juveniles looked neat too...

Anyway here are the photographs taken by Tim Nurse who dove Lake Tanganyika with Ad Konings once. His photos are all over the internet.

This is a wildcaught 1.5-2.25" juvenile I bought for the hell of it since it was different. Peter thinks it is just the juvenile pattern on it, and it obviously is not a S. decorus. He's eating like a pig and for the small size of it, it is packing some nice teeth!




A little out of focus


The rest:








This is the male (obvious male in Peter's opinion based on some tubes or barbs or something on the vent. I don't know how to tell the difference in catfish vents so I couldn't say). This one is pretty dark colored compared to the others...kind of similar to S. granulosus... Already eating like a pig...


I asked Tim and he said you guys are more than welcome to use them in your profiles.

[Richard B]

If he wants to breed the Granulosa the way to go about it is to keep them separately, condition them with selective feeding & then bring them together for the spawning attempt. They are scatterers & for a larger syno, produce few large eggs.

Quite a few people who keep them together have had spawning behaviour & on occasion eggs but they have not proved fertile. To the best of my knowledge, only Gavin at NHA in Surrey has successfully raised young

[emartin]

What about this one? Think it is just juvenile pattern or a different species?

[Birger]

I am sorry to tell you but to me, it looks like a hybrid. I wish I was wrong!

[Richard B]

I am sorry to tell you but to me, it looks like a hybrid. I wish I was wrong!

Which one? The "tanganicae" or the lucipinnis? I believe these are genuine & can't see anything that makes me think otherwise & i'm a real pessimist - what makes you think of a hybrid?

[Birger]

Which one? The "tanganicae" or the lucipinnis? I believe these are genuine & can't see anything that makes me think otherwise & i'm a real pessimist - what makes you think of a hybrid?

The Luci...The spots seem too perfect and the color off, but that was first thing in the morning when I posted.

[Richard B]

Yeah i know what you mean, although i have seen a lot of variation & this one looks tiny - i suspect genuine

[emartin]

How are you so sure it is lucipinnis?


He imported them directly from Africa and it was in the same box labeled (and billed, all fish were accounted for and that fish was sold on purpose) as Synodontis tanganicae.

How do you know it isn't just a juvenile pattern? I don't have to tell you that it is possible, with Synodontis eupterus being the biggest example of a fish that looks completely different as an adult as it did a juvenile... This guy is awfully small still. I can net him out and take a few macro shots if that would help.

Otherwise I am just going to wait and see with this guy and take photographs as it ages.

I highly doubt it is a hybrid though given that it was imported from Lake Tanganyika... When you're at Peter's facility you can see all the boxes the fish came in (he usually recycles them too for people that walk in and buy fish on Saturdays) with the African country (don't recall which countries at the moment) air port security stickers, JFK airport stickers, etc.

[emartin]

If he wants to breed the Granulosa the way to go about it is to keep them separately, condition them with selective feeding & then bring them together for the spawning attempt. They are scatterers & for a larger syno, produce few large eggs.

Quite a few people who keep them together have had spawning behaviour & on occasion eggs but they have not proved fertile. To the best of my knowledge, only Gavin at NHA in Surrey has successfully raised young

I will forward this on to him. I think he wants to try it his way first.

Is that a F1 S. granulosus in your avatar image by the way?

[Richard B]

How are you so sure it is lucipinnis?.

The first hard ray of the dorsal fin is white (not dark) & only Lucipinnis & petricola exhibit this. As a tiny fish they are very similar but petricola generally has smaller spots

[Birger]

Yeah i know what you mean, although i have seen a lot of variation & this one looks tiny - i suspect genuine

I suspect you are right but those spots sure are perfect.

How do you know it isn't just a juvenile pattern? I don't have to tell you that it is possible, with Synodontis eupterus being the biggest example of a fish that looks completely different as an adult as it did a juvenile... This guy is awfully small still. I can net him out and take a few macro shots if that would help.

Otherwise I am just going to wait and see with this guy and take photographs as it ages.

The best thing to do would be as you say, to come back to this thread with pictures in a year...we would really appreciate that, definite proof is always better than conjecture.

Birger

[emartin]

So far I noticed after observing the little guy he is very active like the 4.5" male I have is.

He has some of the big spots on the belly it looks like.

And there are very few very very faint small spots around the body in between the big obvious spots...

I'll keep you guys updated every few weeks/months. It'd be really cool if this does turn out to be the juvenile pattern of S. tanganicae...

Though I'd still be happy with it if it is just a S. lucipinnis...

[Richard B]

Is that a F1 S. granulosus in your avatar image by the way?

yes - sorry i missed this earlier

The little fish is definately not a juvie Tanganicae - the first hard ray of the dorsal fin is pale - this only applies to lucipinnis & petricola - it will not change colour. Given the small size & large body spots for it's size it is most likely lucipinnis.