single lima shovelnose or other mid size cat in 38gal tank?

[Bristlenose 94]

ive got a 38gal tank, and ive been thinking about getting a lima shovelnose. is this possible? i saw in the lima shovelnose profile that 3 can be kept in a 55gal.
the tank is as follows:

38gal:
filter- ac110
plants- crypts, Anubias nana
decor- driftwood/bog wood
temp- 78-81˚F
pH- 6.4-6.8
fish- 1 angel
1 ruby shark
1 BN plec
1 clown plec
1 whiptail cat
1 swordtail
small group of red & blue Colombian tetras

i can get rid of the tetras if they're going to get eaten along with anything else that will be eaten.

i was also considering a black/asian upside down cat or a giant bumblebee cat. can i get opinions on those as well?

any help would be greatly appreciated!

[sidguppy]

is this possible? i saw in the lima shovelnose profile that 3 can be kept in a 55gal.

not on this site you didn't!
edit: wow....
JOOOOOOOLLLLSSS that catelog needs an overhaul. in a 55G the poor fishy couldn't even turn around.......

the lima shovelnose is a fish that reaches at least a foot and a half in length, and yes they can and do reach that size in captivity.......

fish this size do not belong in 55G tanks.

the Black asian USD catfish is another fish that gets too large.
about 1 foot, not including the large elongated tailfin. say about 14-15" when fully grown. fwiw, I have seen em that big, in really large tanks.
this one doesn't just pack size and bulk, but a load of huge character as well. it can handle itelf in a large tank crammed with malawian mbuna, wich tells us it's a voracious, tough bugger.

the "Giant bumblebee" doesn't ring a bell (common names....argh), but I think this is Pseudopimelodus bufonius.
this fish reaches 8-12" TL (SL in the catelog is without caudal fin and this fish has a big caudal fin) wich makes it uitable for a 00G tank(it's not really that active), but NOT in a tank half the size

as a juvie; fine, but be ready to move it when it grows

IMO the combination between Mystus leucophasis and Pseudopimelodus isn't good; likely the Mystus will harass the Pseudopimelodus.

back tothe drawing board!

[Bristlenose 94]

I only wanted one big cat. Does that change anything?

If i cant have any of those cats that i listed then what are some other choices for me?

[Richard B]

I only wanted one big cat. Does that change anything?

If i cant have any of those cats that i listed then what are some other choices for me?

What is the footprint of your tank? - ie the length x depth - we don't need the height.

[sidguppy]

I only wanted one big cat. Does that change anything?

no
you want 1 big cat, you need 1 big tank.

it's about ethics. do you want to keep a fish the proper way as in "not practicing cruelty to animals"; the tank should be adequate

and adequate means that the INSIDES of the tank should be 4 times the length of the fish in tanklength; 1,5 times the length of the fish in tankwidth and 1 times the length of the fish in watercolumn.

and that's a bare minimum, it's much better to go for the 5 or 6x length; 2-3x width and 1,5-2 times height.

read the "Big Cat Sticky". Sorubim lima is considered one of the "smallest big cats" .

still, a 16" lima (a fairly common size) would need at least a 64" x 24" x 12".

I cannot handle math at a non metric system; it would make my head explode and my eyeballs boil. terrible things from the Dungeon Dimenions would escape from my jugulars to wreak havoc on humanity.

so anyone care to put gallonage on those numbers?

I do know that it's more than 38, though.....

[Richard B]

As a single featured catfish you might consider pseudomystus stenomus or perhaps siamensis, a pair of megalechis thoracata, a couple of agamyxis pectinifrons, or a single syno alberti or maybe even a s.brichardi.

In the "bumblebee" vein you could perhaps squeeze in a batrochoglanis ranius, but this perhaps gets a little big (?) You need to look for fish that get to about 6" max.

If you were after a lima or asian USD cat you really need something like a 6x2 footer or 5x30" as an absolute minimum

[Richard B]

[quote="sidguppy] so anyone care to put gallonage on those numbers?

[/quote]

Er...isn't a 6x2x2 about 125gallons?

[sidguppy]

if you say so, i haven't got a clue

but i meant these numbers:

still, a 16" lima (a fairly common size) would need at least a 64" x 24" x 12".

it's in inches. can you gallon em up?

[MatsP]

64 * 2.5 = 128 + 32 = 160cm = ~5.5 ft.
24 *2.5cm= 60cm = 2ft
12 * 2.5cm= 30cm = 1ft
[Did you not mean 16-18" tall?]

1.6 * 0.6 * 0.3 m3 ~= 2/3 * 1.6 * 0.3 ~= 1.0 * 0.3 = 300 liter ~= 75 US gal (but not even close to the shape of a regular US 75 gal tank, which is 48"(L) x 18" (W) x 24" (H) if memory serves me).
If we go to 18" tall, it would be about 450 liter. Or 100 UK gal, 120 US gal. But again, not the conventional dimensions for this size tank - most conventional tanks are taller and less distance from front to back ("DEPTH" aka "WIDTH", but not "HEIGHT").


Of "standard" size tanks, the one that comes closest is, as Richard says, a 6' x 2' x 2', which is about 650 liter, about 140 UK gal or 180 US gal. .

I agree, the Cat-eLog should probably be changed.

--
Mats

[Bristlenose 94]

tank has a 36" (91.44cm) x 12" (30.48cm) footprint.

ok, would any of the following choices work?
3x Diadema sp. porthole or flagfin
2x Megalechis thoracata hoplo
2x Pseudomystus siamensis asian bumblebee

[MatsP]

Dianema

would definitely be fine for quite some time - I have D. urostriatum (flagtail ones), and they have grown ever so little. I keep mine in a 24" x 18" base tank, and they are approx 3" long by now.

Megalechis thoracata

should also be fine.

Pseudomystus siamensis

should be fine too.

--
Mats

[sidguppy]

these 3 do fit, but not together

you can keep 5 or 6 Dianema's in there and add some characins or other peaceful freeswimming fish in there.
Dianema is very shy when kept without dithers. they are completely harmless to other fish and the bigger the group, the better they show themselves.

Hoplo's can be kept as well; you can keep Hoplo's (any Megalechis or Hoplosternum species) as a pair or 1M and 2-3F.
these are much more lively than Dianema, but here too a few barbs or characins make a world of difference.


the Pseudomystus is a bit different. first, it's much more nocturnal.
second: it's a territorial fish. not as bad as some of it's larger cousins, but it's there.
if you want more than 1, best keep 3; because 2 is a bad number with these.

you can add other fish, but make sure these are a bit robust and highbuild.
Pseudomystus can and does eat small fish.

[Bristlenose 94]

ok,
1- how do i sex megalechis juveniles?
2- about how fast do dianema spp. grow?
3- will all these cats eat pellets?

[MatsP]

ok,
1- how do i sex megalechis juveniles?

Not easy. They are fairly easy as mature fish, but small ones aren't easy to sex.

2- about how fast do dianema spp. grow?

Not very. I doubt mine have grown half an inch in 6 months.

3- will all these cats eat pellets?

I feed my Dianema with JBL Novo Tabs, Tetra Colour Bits/Prima or Tetra Tabimin. Megalechis will eat anything that fits in their small mouth. No info on Pseudomystus, I'm afraid.

--
Mats

[Bristlenose 94]

hmm... the catelog says asian bumblebees will adapt well to prepared foods...
i think ill call my lfs and ask them to order some hoplos and asian bumblebees, and whichever one they get first i will buy.

one last question, can i keep 2 megalechis if i cant sex them and they end up being boht male?

[sidguppy]

Megalechis jucvies can be kept in a group. they are very active and social; you can buy 5-6 and raise them together.

once they reach 4" or so; the males have developed their large pectoral spines and you can probably trade 2-3 spare animals for something else

by getting a larger group of juvies, you have the advantage of seeing a more lively tank at first; 1 or 2 tiny fish isn't much to watch

also: once you select, you can sell a group, wich is a lot easier than sell a loose single animal.

up to 4" or so, your tank can easily have 6 Hoplo's.

[Bristlenose 94]

ok. so, asian bumblebee and hoplo juveniles are both cheap right? (like, under $15 for the bumblebee and under $5 each for the hoplos)

[sidguppy]

I cannot say anything about that, because I'm at least 6000 miles away from you, so I'm just a wee bit unfamiliar with your local fish shops....

[Bristlenose 94]

hmm... my lfs got s shipment of festivum and blue acara cichlids today that i had ordered last month, so i guess ill get those now... (i change my mind quickly...) but ill be sure to grab a spotted raph or banjo or some SABs when i go. i wont leave without a catfish lol.

[jprp]

Lima sn seem to be always undersized on line and in books.
my two are 18 and 14 in total length ,add to this that they swim with barbels extended in front and you must treat them as a 24in fish.
with a small tank i would advise you pick a nice syno instead. they can be fed earth worms ect if it is the predatory element you are interested in.

[MatsP]

Lima sn seem to be always undersized on line and in books.

Can't speak for other places, but our measure is 420mm/16.5" SL - and I suspect your 18" fish has more than 1.5" tail fin - if not, please post a measurement photo in the "bugs" section, and we'll update the size accordingly.

my two are 18 and 14 in total length ,add to this that they swim with barbels extended in front and you must treat them as a 24in fish.

Good point. What size tank do you have yours in?

And I have edited the "55 gal" note, and changed it to a more neutral "big enough tank", without actually going into detail of how large the tank should be.

--
Mats

[Chrysichthys]

I would think, given how physically inflexible they are, that lima shovelnoses would need a larger tank than most other fish of their length, to be able to turn around properly.