Indoor pond suggestions

[catfishareunbeatable]

I am planning on setting up a 300gal indoor pond for my channel and was wondering if anyone has any expeirence with this sorta thing.

[grokefish]

There are a few people on here that have indoor ponds.
I have always wanted one.
Kepp bumping your topic and someone will see it eventually.

Matt

[catfishareunbeatable]

Will do

[L number Banana]

I have one every winter for my goldfish so it's temporary. It's a rigid pond liner that's about 200 gal. I keep my tropical lilies in there with them and use only a bubbler. Since mine is in the basement, water changes are easy with a drain but it's something that should be worked out well in advance. You don't want to set it up in a spot that you'll need to use a pail to scoop out water - that could get old very quickly! The problem I've seen with indoor ponds is always with the plumbing. If it's permanent, there's much more to worry about with regards to possible leakage, so care should be taken at the outset just you you don't have to empty it in an emergency.

Also you may have to find a way to keep the temperature cool enough for your cat - mine is located well away from any heat sources.
I use a fluorescent light on a timer for the plants and allow them and the fish to go a bit dormant, there' a more sensible word for that but it escapes me at the moment.
I'm wondering if there's info out there in the field of Japanese design. A few tea houses I've been in had ponds in them.
What sort of thing do you have in mind? It's sounds like a great project!

[sidguppy]

300G is small......for a pond

and wayyyyyy too small for a channel cat!
it would be a big disappointment if you went through all the trouble of building it and then having your baby whale outgrowing your project within a year and a half (!)

wich i can practically guarantee to happen.

channel cats reach 4-5 feet and get quite bulky too. you'd need a tank (or a pond) wich is 3 or 4 times the length of the fish in length; twice his length in width and at least once in height.

i can't calculate with non metrics, but given it stays small, say 120 cm ( about 4 feet more or less)

that would make for a tank of about 4 meters long, 2,5 meters wide and 1,2m high.
in liters; that's about 12000 liters......

in gallons it can be divided by 4. it's crude, but a US gallon is a bit less than 4 liters, a UK gallon a bit more.
wich makes it 3000 gallons, give or take a few.

and that's a bare minimum!

sure your post wasn't a typo and you meant to say 3K on gallons? otherwise i strongly suggest to trade the channel cat for a more suitable fish.

in a 300g pond you could easily house a small group of Ameiurus spp ( North american bullhead catfishes). same requirements, but those don't outgrow your pond.

[catfishareunbeatable]

First of all it is enough for now since the cat is still fairly small and you must be crazy thinking a channel catfish in a captive setting is gunna get 5 feet are you kidding I will be lucky if he gets three the world record channel cat is only 58lbs if Im not mistaken you must be thinking of the blue cat (not a channel catfish) which can get like 100plus pounds now that that is taken care of,Im gunna use a 300gallon rubbermaid feed trough which is 6 feet long and 5 feet wide and already has a built in bulkhead

[Redtailrob]

Hi there.

I too have an indoor heated pond in my fish house.
Its relatively small though @ 370 gallons.
6 ft x 4 ft wide x 2.5 ft deep.
This is a rigid Koi pond that i have freestanding but with two edges agaianst the walls of the fish house & the other two supported by thick wooden timbers.
The tank is filtered with a Fluval FX5 & also a Eheim Thermo 2080? (Largest model they do)
Temperature is regulated @ around 78degrees.
Susbstrate is silver sand but i may change this as it's getting into the filters.
Plenty of large pieces of Bogwood & some large Tubes.
Current stock is :
V.Large G Gourami 20"
L.Mammoratus x 26"
Black shark x 15"
P.Fowleri x 12"
Pair of Breeding Dovii
Vulture Cat (Calyphsaus- wrong spelling sorry) x 16"

This is overstocked because my 8foot tank is leaking so some of the stock is from there.
I carry out a 30% water change every week & the fish are feed Prawns once a week & the big cats hand feeed 2-3 whole baby Calamari Squid.
They also get a large handful of Hikari Cichlid Gold & some sinking Sterlet pellets once every 2-3 wks.

[MatsP]

Let me turn your question the other way:
Why do you think that a channel cat in captivity shouldn't reach it's full potential size?

Many fish actually grow larger in captivity than in the wild, as they get more reliable food-supply and no predators to kill them before they reach full size.

Of course, fish that aren't kept in good conditions, just like any other animal in substandard condition, it may not reach it's potential. But that's not a reason to not provide them with suitable conditions - just like we don't really think it's right for mothers to smoke/drink/take drugs whilst pregnant to reduce the weight/size of the baby at delivery time.

It may not reach 5ft, but it should certainly reach a good three feet at the very least. Going by a 4L x 2L x 1.5L rule, you then need a 12ft x 6ft x 4.5ft size pond. Sure, it won't happen this year, and probably not in three years either. But if you are going to keep this fish for the duration of it's life, which may be more than 20 years, you need to plan ahead, as it will grow fairly fast the first several years, and then slow down.

--
Mats

[sidguppy]

First of all it is enough for now since the cat is still fairly small and you must be crazy thinking a channel catfish in a captive setting is gunna get 5 feet are you kidding I will be lucky if he gets three the world record channel cat is only 58lbs if Im not mistaken you must be thinking of the blue cat (not a channel catfish) which can get like 100plus pounds now that that is taken care of,Im gunna use a 300gallon rubbermaid feed trough which is 6 feet long and 5 feet wide and already has a built in bulkhead

and after this little bit i have a few questions of my own:

#1: why ask anything on a forum when you're already doing whatever you've planned to, regardless of what advice you could get?

#2; why ask anything at all, when it's obvious you're not going to listen to what you do no want to hear in the first place?

#3: if keeping a civil tone too much of an effort, why bother other people with your lack of manners?

#4: ever heard of punctuation and proper typing?

[Jools]

It would help if you gave us the dimensions of the pond, but as Sid says 300gall is too small for a 3ft fish. As I keep saying about big cats - it's as important to consider what you'll be doing with the fish in 15 years time as much as tank size.

What are your plans for the pond over the next 15 years?

Jools

[catfishareunbeatable]

Ok the catfish is in a 50 right now and its gunna start to get cramped so I thought a 300gal indoor pond would be fine till I had the cash for a much larger pond and I do wanna give it a great home thats why I wanna put him in a 300gal rubbermade trough and I know a 3 foot fish is not gunna be happy in a 6 foot long pond but it will for while.

I just wanted to get some tips on the indoor pond as I have never had one before sorry if I offended anyone and it seems I did

[MatsP]

Sure, we're not saying you shouldn't move it to bigger quarters. But what we are trying to get you to understand is that it is a major undertaking to have a large indoor pond, and you will need a large pond for this fish if you are going to keep it until it's mature.

--
Mats

[L number Banana]

catfishareunbeatable :

I just wanted to get some tips on the indoor pond as I have never had one before sorry if I offended anyone and it seems I did

No problem and no offence taken here , I guess people worry about someone getting into a situation with a fish that turns out to be a disaster.

First, let's make sure we're all talking about the same fish. Click to see if it's this fish, Regular channel cat:

Ictalurus punctatus

The giant one is at this link: Blue Channel

Ictalurus furcatus

If it's the smaller one, it can be kept outdoors in a pond eventually. Also is your Aldergrove the BC Aldergrove? near the mountains etc? If so you have warmer temps than some other places in Canada so you may only need an occasional heater in an outdoor pond, the low temp listed is 12C so you may be in a place where you'd never need a heater. Lucky you if that's the case

For now with an indoor pond, I'd stick with some of the items/methods mentioned so far and just keep his eventual size in mind for the future. One tip - they can splash, like really splash so keep your electronics etc somewhere protected just in case his playing soaks something important or potentially dangerous, plugs etc.

Would love to see some pics of the little guy if you have any and keep us updated with your progress, sounds like it will be awesome!

[catfishareunbeatable]

Yea it is a regular channel cat and Im in BC,And I decided to dig deep and put off the bass boat and in the spring and Im gunna build a 10ft by4ft by2.5ft indoor pond which should make a good conversation starter and a couple more questions how the hell am I gunna keep the dog out of it and he is a lab which makes even harder and what else could I put in there....suggestions?

[L number Banana]

how the hell am I gunna keep the dog out of it and he is a lab which makes even harder and what else could I put in there....suggestions?

Training for the water-doggie and a decorative non-copper metal top-screen on a hinge so you can still open it and it will look nice.

I'd check with your insurance co before going any further - don't want to do all that work for nothing And also you'll need to check the weight and your structure.

[catfishareunbeatable]

It is a solid concrete foundation so I should be fine but I better check anyway just to be safe.

[L number Banana]

check anyway just to be safe.

Y'know, I was just thinking about indoor catfish and maybe you should go hunting at some japanese indoor landscaping or pond design website. You may find something interesting on those type of sites. In fact, I would hunt around your area because lots of Japanese Gardens exist in BC that are more than noteworthy. Try some of the Bonzai sellers in Chinatown (Van). Also try to find some of the Asian koi dealers - bet you there tons of experience there as far as the actual building and design of serious indoor ponds.

And catfish have a special place in certain many cultures Just for some interesting reading there: http://www.planetcatfish.com/shanesworl ... C%2Fem%3E)

[apistomaster]

L-number banana had a good idea checking out the Japanese gardening and Koi pool dealers in Vancouver for a final design.
I see no problem with any of the above ground pools on a 4 inch thick ground slab.

I don't understand any of the talk about a channel cat getting 3 feet indoors. I doubt you will ever grow it to more than 30 inches.
4-5 feet for this species is unheard of. The old ones just get fatter not much longer than 36 inches. We have them in our local rivers and I have never caught one over 3 feet long and I have caught my share of channel catfish from a river that grows white sturgeon over 8 feet long. I have kept them as a kid in water troughs for our horses and even if the catfish managed to reach 3 feet which seriously doubt, they can easily turn around in a 2 feet wide trough. We had a 6 X 2-1/2 feet trough and I kept a few 2 feet channel cats with some small mouth bass.
These things live in your Fraser River, too don't they? it isn't like a channel cat is some expensive exotic catfish that has the capacity to grow to truly huge proportions like SA Red Tail cats and their relatives so people ought to lighten up. In the worst case scenario just eat the damned thing and start over with smaller specimens or try something exotic.

[Birger]

These things live in your Fraser River, too don't they?

They are not endemic and I have not heard of them in the river...yet.
There are various introductions of Ameiurus melas, A.natalis and A.nebulosus in the lower mainland and Vancouver Island. On Vancouver Island it has been a disaster impacting rare (really cool) benthic-limnetic forms of Gasterosteus aculeatus (Threespine stickleback).

Birger

[apistomaster]

Well, at just before the turn of the 19th Century both the Fraser and Columbia River systems received transplants of popular game fish from the Mississippi drainage and parts east so I am pretty sure if there are bullheads then there were both Channel and Flathead Catfish introduced. Talk about blues being present is just talk. Large channel cats are often called "Blue catfish" in the PNW. None of these catfish, bass and sunfish were native to the PNW. It's Salmonid country. These introduced species are popular with sportsmen but I wish they had never been introduced to salmon/trout/char rivers.
Flatheads never were as well suited to the strong currents of these large rivers and their major tributaries but hydroelectric dams enhamced the rivers as warm water fish habitats but the Flathead Catfish were not as well suited so they are rarer but those I have personally seen caught from the Snake River in town have been nearly 4 feet long and 45 lbs. They live in the same deep pools as the white sturgeon. You need a 10 inch trout for bait to catch them, at least that is the favorite if illegal bait fish around here. They aren't as stream lined as the channel cats. I have also collected small numbers of a Madtom catfish species from the Snake River but they live a marginal existence but they are established in the Snake/Columbia Rivers. Fry were used for the original stocking programs so that is why and how we ended up with as many non-native catfish as we did in our rivers.

EDIT: I searched for but could not find any documentation of anything other than Ameiurus nebulous, Bullhead Catfish in the Frasier River, British Columbia. I am amazed that this river escaped their introduction, apparently. The two major River systems of the Pacific Northwest North America are otherwise so similar to identical in native species.
Larry

[Birger]

Most of the bullheads have worked there way up from south of the border either by natural means or with a little help. Especially a little help to get to the Island. Even in the Columbia drainage there must be so many dams that I.punctatus just has not made it up into BC yet.The only other catfish in Western Canada is Noturus flavus from the milk river in southern Alberta which is connected to the Mississippi drainage and this one is native.

We can still get young I.punctatus in LFS but hopefully none are released

Generally in British Columbia Bullheads are referred to as catfishes and Sculpins are commonly called bullheads.With some of the coastal sculpins getting quite large.(for a sculpin)

This is the book of choice for me when it comes to BC freshwater fish, fairly recent as well(2007)
http://www.amazon.ca/Freshwater-Fishes- ... =8-1-spell

Anyway...sorry to get off topic...back to the ponds.

[catfishareunbeatable]

Yea we have bulleads every almost where,if Im not mistaken we have two varietys yellow and brown not quite sure and I have heard rumors of channels in the fraser but no confirmed reports but we lots of invasive species like my favorite laremouth bass.

[Birger]

The Black's -

Ameiurus melas

are more east of you in the South Okanagan.

Birger