catfish available in australia

[DJ-don]

hi
i've just recently found out that theres alot of loricads etc that are quarantined and cannot enter australia and only a few can.
i realised that why have certain loricad species and others have been allowed into australia while others can not enter australia

[MatsP]

The list of allowed import is here: http://www.environment.gov.au/biodivers ... t-list.pdf

It's not so much quarantine as "prevent another rabbit disaster". There are already large plecos in more than a dozen different places in the world, from fish that have been released (accidentaly and on purpose).

--
Mats

[Chrysichthys]

Why, in some cases (e.g.

Synodontis decorus

) are only males allowed to be imported?

[lnumbers63]

Hi All,

I have just joined and am from Melbourne, Australia.

Thanks for the interesting posting and the list of species available for import into the country. The less than exhaustive listing certainly explains why we have real difficulty here in getting some of the more interesting catfish into our tanks - and at reasonable prices. An aquarist shopkeeper told me the other day about our country's strict importation reg's. and said that most of the loricarids available here have been bred from stock that was somehow brought into the country. He also said that if the catfishes he seeks to import are not easily identifiable by our customs people the fish will usually be destroyed without him even seeing the fish.

Another aquarist shopkeeper told me that catfish may spend a long time in our customs areas being identified, which adds to the cost of importation, making catfish importation generally a sometimes costly exercise.

Having said that, are there any fellow catfish enthusiasts here in Oz, preferably in Melbourne or Victoria, with some interesting catfish for sale? Am particularly interested in loricarids and panaques.

Cheers,


Ron.

[DJ-don]

personally i think its cuz the aus government is strict with the quarntine laws because we got such a unique biomes in australia and just a few mishaps could destroy the eco system which brings me to the thought, why have certain fish been allowed in while others are quarantined

[MatsP]

As far as I know, all fish SHOULD be quarantined. This is not what this list is about - it is about preventing them from being spread into nature. Do not ask me what the criteria for being on the list or not on the list would be.

Chrysichthys - do you not get the "males only" reason yourself? Males can not reproduce without females, so they are "safe". As to why they choose males rather than females, who knows. At least Synos are supposedly easy to sex... ;) [Not that I think S. decora are particularly rampant breeder anyways, but that's a different matter].

--
Mats

[sidguppy]

personally i think its cuz the aus government is strict with the quarntine laws because we got such a unique biomes in australia and just a few mishaps could destroy the eco system which brings me to the thought, why have certain fish been allowed in while others are quarantined

it's already waaayyyyyyy too late.

the strangest thing is that several invasive species are on the list while others are restricted.
for example xiphophorus and poecilia species can be legally imported, but these are very invasive and spread rapidly.

also; i've seen a river full of clariids near the koala sactuary north of Brisbane, so this list might give you the impression they're keeping vigilance.
but it's more a case of showing up with a bucket of water while the house is already a smoldering ruin.

guppies, mollies, sworttails, Tilapia (!!), trout, carp, convict cichlid, jack dempsey, blue acara, and tench are already established exotes and given the number of clariids I've seen and wild common bristlenoses several others are as well.

[MatsP]

it's already waaayyyyyyy too late.

the strangest thing is that several invasive species are on the list while others are restricted.
for example xiphophorus and poecilia species can be legally imported, but these are very invasive and spread rapidly.

also; i've seen a river full of clariids near the koala sactuary north of Brisbane, so this list might give you the impression they're keeping vigilance.
but it's more a case of showing up with a bucket of water while the house is already a smoldering ruin.

guppies, mollies, sworttails, Tilapia (!!), trout, carp, convict cichlid, jack dempsey, blue acara, and tench are already established exotes and given the number of clariids I've seen and wild common bristlenoses several others are as well.

Sure, so your suggestion is to let anyone import anything and hope that everyone does the right thing and don't (perhaps by accident) let their fish out into local waterways.

--
Mats

[Chrysichthys]

Chrysichthys - do you not get the "males only" reason yourself? Males can not reproduce without females, so they are "safe". As to why they choose males rather than females, who knows. At least Synos are supposedly easy to sex... ;) [Not that I think S. decora are particularly rampant breeder anyways, but that's a different matter].

What I meant was, with rabbits, let's say, all it takes is one pregnant female to enter the country and produce a litter, which then go on to interbreed. So you might say, "okay, we'll only allow males in, just to be safe." But why single out males in the case of fish? I wondered if the people responsible didn't know that fish reproduce by external fertilisation. But yes, of course if you only allow one sex of fish in, whether it be male or female, they can't breed.

[MatsP]

What I meant was, with rabbits, let's say, all it takes is one pregnant female to enter the country and produce a litter, which then go on to interbreed. So you might say, "okay, we'll only allow males in, just to be safe." But why single out males in the case of fish? I wondered if the people responsible didn't know that fish reproduce by external fertilisation. But yes, of course if you only allow one sex of fish in, whether it be male or female, they can't breed.

Indeed, one wonders. I think it's a "blanket males for simplicity" (I haven't actually rechecked the list, but I think all single sex species are "male only").

And of course "male only" wouldn't be brilliant for seahorses, as the males carry the babies.

--
Mats

[Chrysichthys]

It gets stranger: "only non-albino form of Mesonauta festivus" is allowed. Why?

[MatsP]

It gets stranger: "only non-albino form of Mesonauta festivus" is allowed. Why?

Yeah, that beats me too.

--
Mats

[Bas Pels]

I would not know why, but I do like the idea to ban all albinos from the hobby

However, I don't think this should be done through legislation

[apistomaster]

I would not know why, but I do like the idea to ban all albinos from the hobby

However, I don't think this should be done through legislation

That will be the day.
Speaking of albinos, last week a buddy of mine caught what he thought was an Oscar while fly fishing a local large mouth bass pond in Central Eastern Oregon State that was 10 inches long "and it put up a good fight." Jeff said it looked like an Oscar but not like the images he saw on line. I sent him a photo of an albino Tiger Oscar and he said that is what he caught. No danger of them becoming established due to the cold winters but this sort of thing is what only gives more fuel for the legislators looking for a cause that won't meet stiff opposition like HR 669 introduced to the USA House of Representatives earlier this year, that if passed would be worse than the restrictions already in place in Australia.

[sidguppy]

Sure, so your suggestion is to let anyone import anything and hope that everyone does the right thing and don't (perhaps by accident) let their fish out into local waterways.

i didn't suggest anything whatsoever, so don't put words in my mouth you have made up

don't presume to speak or think or decide for me; I'm perfectly capable of doing that job myself, thank you very much.

[MatsP]

Sure, so your suggestion is to let anyone import anything and hope that everyone does the right thing and don't (perhaps by accident) let their fish out into local waterways.

i didn't suggest anything whatsoever, so don't put words in my mouth you have made up

don't presume to speak or think or decide for me; I'm perfectly capable of doing that job myself, thank you very much.

So, do you have a suggestion, or just criticising the Australians for their current system with no suggestion for an improvement?

And I didn't mean to imply that you were suggesting that, I was just trying to get you to tell us what you are thinking...

--
Mats

[Shaun]

The "Allowable Import List" system used in Australia was devised before most L-Number Loricariid sp were discovered, which is why they're not on the list. Additions to the list are made every 5 years or so, last time Dekeyseria brachyura was added, maybe more will be added next time. The L-Numbers available here have been smuggled in over the years, some are now locally bred. The black market for them is thriving at the moment. Occasionally an L-Number gets snuck in (deliberately or accidently) as Dekeyseria brachyura.
Albino Festivums aren't allowed because it's difficult to tell them from other species at 3cm.

The system works in terms of bio-security, but there's plenty of non-invasive species that will never be available here, due to the time it takes to assess something to go on the list...and I think only 5 species can be added at a time. Every 5 years

I work in a facility that imports, quarantines and wholesales fish for the trade here
Shaun

[Chrysichthys]

You might be able to answer a question I have: Why, for some fish (e.g. Synodontis decorus) are only males above a certain size allowed in?

[MatsP]

You might be able to answer a question I have: Why, for some fish (e.g. Synodontis decorus) are only males above a certain size allowed in?

I'll have a stab at this: "You can't sex them, or even correctly identify the species, if they are too small", and of course, if they aren't sexable, how can you tell if they are male... ;)

Shaun will likely give another reason...

--
Mats

[Shaun]

Yeah, the males only thing has always confused me...Decorus, Black Lancers and Red Hook Silver Dollars to name a few. The main reason given by the authorities is that they don't want those species being bred here. But why let them in at all if that's the case???
The size restrictions are generally just because it's easier to identify them over a certain size. Especially when they're pale and stressed, in a bag at the airport.

The inspectors generally don't know much about fish though. For example, Panaque maccus is so commonly imported as Dekeyseria brachyura that most inspectors think P. maccus IS D. brachyura. And we just recently found out that the Spiney Eels they've been letting into the country for 20 years are the wrong species. This sort of stuff happens all the time.
Shaun

[racoll]

Someone informed me once that the way they identify plecs at Australian customs is "stripey = good" and "spotty = bad". I'm not joking.

Biosecurity is very important, but I wish they would concentrate more resources on point of sale. In the Northern Australian climate, almost any traded ornamental fish is potentially invasive.

What would be more cost effective is for example perhaps mandatory leaflets with fish purchases, or a permit system where you have to sit through a 30 minute educational video before you can carry a card to say you are fit to purchase living creatures responsibly.

I do think most fish introductions are not malicious or accidental though, and a bit of education at the point of sale will go a long way.

By all means do ban certain high risk genera/species like Pterygoplichthys, Clarias & Tilapia etc.

[Bas Pels]

I know it is somewhat off topic, but still related.

I have some Cheirodon galusdae, a Tetra from southern Chile. They are quite hardy, and can survive a normal winter in a pond.

Now I wonder, may I bring the fry to a local shop, or should I better not do this, as a buyer might not take all needed precautions to prevent them spreading into Dutch waters?

The same ethical problem, but with another fish, in another country, from more or less to opposite point of view

[chemma]

Hey Shaun,

Are we ony meant to be able to get male black lancers down under?

My little fellow has no genital papillae so either too young to know or my fella is a girl

Emma

[sidguppy]

ezy

just watch TV next to the tank

if the wee fishy concentrates on the football game it's a bloke

if there's constant complaining you're not zapping to that Sandra Bollock/Hugh grant drama and steadfastly developes a headache a minute before you hit the pillow, it's a sheila.

[chemma]

LOL

[Shaun]

I think pretty much everyone will be watching the Football today! Go Saint Kilda!

Chemma,
The Black Lancers are supposed to be male, but I don't think the inspectors know how to sex them. Most batches I see are mixed
Shaun