mr. lee is now eating his friends. :(

[Mysticalxwhisper]

so we've been waiting on the university to see if they would adopt mister lee since we are moving and can't get a bigger tank for him. meanwhile, mr. lee has decided to start eating his tankmates. we bought them 100 feeder fish over the weekend, and there was about 30 left, mostly the bigger ones the oscars couldn't catch. but instead of eating those, he decided to eat Bob the pleco he took a swipe at our oscar Tiger the other week but we thought it was because the oscars have been bullying mr. lee, cause they are mating/making eggs/sorta lol, and didn't want him in a certain area of the tank. these are the pics. we tried to save bob but he was already dead

it's weird because he never bothered any of the fish, ever. but since i started giving him chop meat once a week, now he's eating them. i think i turned him into a blood thirsty demon-fish.

yesterday:::



today::: bob in his stomach.

[Lloydy]

Such a shame, what plec did he eat?

[Mysticalxwhisper]

he ate bob, he was about a year and a half old. 8 inches so or long, but he had a really wide head bout 3 inches.

these are the pictures i could find off hand.





that golfball is no longer in there if any of you are wondering lol.
& also that blue thing is a small plate, we put it in there for the oscars to lay their eggs, cause there's too much gravel for them to dig to the bottom glass. they pretty much told us to screw off and then covered the plate with gravel lol. so we just took it out a few weeks later.

[sidguppy]

I hate to be Captain Obvious, but I -and not just me- saw this coming like from a mile away......

I don't think the feeding of raw meat or so changed his behaviour. it's more that when reaching a certain size he will switch to bigger prey

in essence, there should be NO fish at all smaller than 2/3rds of his own size, ever.

judging by the pics I think he is at least 4 times as long as Bob the pleco.

if there are any fish in there still smaller than 2/3rds of Mr Lee, get them out asap!

[Mysticalxwhisper]

Well yes Captain Obvious, it would appear by my previous posts that, yes the catfish would eventually begin to snack on his tankmates, but i thought i had some time, especially since he has never bothered them. he has grown along with majority of our fish and the oscars are much too large for him to consume. he never even looks at the plecos, sometimes even laying on top of them, being completely oblivious, so the thought of him eating one of them really didn't cross my mind. Call me naive, and I'll accept it, but it's rather hard to find a home for a 3 foot catfish especially trying to do so quickly, so yes we are going to have some mishaps, but we'll move on. If you happen to know a place in United States that would take him, please leave your suggestions, as for I am not having any luck




ha and now that i got my rant out of the way, sorry to be rude mr. guppy dude. anyway, this post was just to give those that have always left me messages an update on my catfish.

[andywoolloo]

Jesus!! That poor pl*co, jesus, poor mr lee!!!

Leave him in a bare tank till you rehome him please, I cannot take it anymore!!

I am glad you told us the golfball wasn't in there anymore.

[Lloydy]

Have you tried to posting on http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/ to see if someone can take your red tail.

[Mysticalxwhisper]

i was just looking at that site!! lol. actually i was googling stuff to see, and oddly enough, monsterfish & planetcatfish came up next too each other.

i'm going to check it out.

i was actually wondering if any of you would know, if a "domesticated" catfish like lee would survive in a pond. a natural pond not a manmade one. just wondering because i was checking out on google all these red tail hybrids and they actually are found out in these giant lakes and ponds in the wild. and a lot of the ones that are domesticated are taken from the wild.

[Mysticalxwhisper]

oh and yes andy, he will be in a pretty much empty tank until we move. at least we're going to try. because we really have no place else to put the other fish except a 20 gallon tank and that would be way too small. and mr lee can jump out of it so. but we'll figure something out. were gonna take out the last 2 ornaments so that there's extra room.

[andywoolloo]

I was going to suggest MFR also! And I would advise against release into wild.

[Mysticalxwhisper]

yea, the pond thing was a major last resort. i dont think i'd have the heart to let my bf do that. anyway, im on monster fish right now, making a post. hopefully someone will want him!!

[andywoolloo]

best of luck!!! Yahoo for mr lee!!

you know the syno lucipinnis stay small and swim like little sharks? If you might want those instead. I love them!!

[Mysticalxwhisper]

oooh, i'll have to look them up. we are going to restart our tank once we move. maybe we'll get some of those

[Birger]

i was actually wondering if any of you would know, if a "domesticated" catfish like lee would survive in a pond. a natural pond not a manmade one. just wondering because i was checking out on google all these red tail hybrids and they actually are found out in these giant lakes and ponds in the wild. and a lot of the ones that are domesticated are taken from the wild.

The problem is this fish could possibly very well survive in a pond somewhere....google invasive fish

Besides people releasing fish that do not belong and they reproduce and take over killing off all the local species another problem is it could release many diseases into a wild ecosystem that it would have a hard time dealing with, this does happen and can have catastrophic results. Even a species that would normally live in the same area should not be released for this very reason.

So please do not even consider this as an option.

[Mysticalxwhisper]

no, we're not. i've posted on a forum to try and find someone to take him, but im also looking into this place here in new jersey that specializes in catfishes and pirhannas.

[MatsP]

An outside pond in New Jersey will not work - natural or otherwise. New Jersey water temperatures in winter will be MUCH cooler than the 25'C/77'F that this fish would like to have year-round. Even if it survives one mild winter, it will not take it if the winter gets cold.

--
Mats

[Mysticalxwhisper]

really? i was told that as long as it had a heater it would be okay?
we don't have room for a pond anyway, but thats at least what i thought.

[MatsP]

really? i was told that as long as it had a heater it would be okay?
we don't have room for a pond anyway, but thats at least what i thought.

Yes, of course it can be done, but if the ambient temperature of a 4000 gal pond is 50'F below the target temperature (e.g. 25'F and target temp 75'F - this difference is claled delta), you need some SERIOUS amount of heating. If you can keep the temperature above, say, 72'F, you'd be fine. But as you probably know [or can imagine] an outdoor pond will transfer heat to the ambient air and the surrounding ground. I doubt the ambient ground temperature outside in New Jersey is above 60'F, on average. A 15'C delta (about 27'F) on a 300 liter (75 g) aquarium recommends 2 x 300W heater. It is not entirely linear, as the surface area to volume doesn't grow linearly - double all sides of the tank, and it's grown the volume by 2^3 = 8 times, whereas the surface of the sides have only grown 2^2 = 4 times. So if we scael 75 gal -> 4000 gal, we find that we need about 4x the length, height and width. That means that we have about 16x the surface area. And once the heat is IN the tank/pond, the surface area is what "leaks" heat out of the water. So if the temperature difference is 27'F, we need something like 600 * 16 = 9600 W worth of heating in the pond. Now, of course, you need to cope with winter conditions, so double that 27'F to 54'F to cope with that. The general physics laws for temperature transfer is directly proportional to the delta-temperature, so twice as large temperature delta -> twice as much heating needed to keep constant temperature -> about 20kW heating capacity. That is a mid-size boiler (one that you'd fit in a two-three bedroom house here in England). Of course, when it's warm, it won't have to run much. Oh, and this doesn't take into effect any windchill factor due to windy weather etc.

I would guess that putting an enclosure over the pond would keep off the worst of the cool would be a good idea financially. You will of course still have to heat it, but the bill for keeping the water warm will be somewhat smaller.

--
Mats

[Mike C]

You may try this store in Maryland... I have only been there a couple of times but it is nice and it says they rescue large fish. I am not sure how far away it is from you, but I can't imagine it is more than an hour or so.

http://www.houseoftropicals.net/map-directions.html

Mike

[Mysticalxwhisper]

Yes, of course it can be done, but if the ambient temperature of a 4000 gal pond is 50'F below the target temperature (e.g. 25'F and target temp 75'F - this difference is claled delta), you need some SERIOUS amount of heating. If you can keep the temperature above, say, 72'F, you'd be fine. But as you probably know [or can imagine] an outdoor pond will transfer heat to the ambient air and the surrounding ground. I doubt the ambient ground temperature outside in New Jersey is above 60'F, on average. A 15'C delta (about 27'F) on a 300 liter (75 g) aquarium recommends 2 x 300W heater. It is not entirely linear, as the surface area to volume doesn't grow linearly - double all sides of the tank, and it's grown the volume by 2^3 = 8 times, whereas the surface of the sides have only grown 2^2 = 4 times. So if we scael 75 gal -> 4000 gal, we find that we need about 4x the length, height and width. That means that we have about 16x the surface area. And once the heat is IN the tank/pond, the surface area is what "leaks" heat out of the water. So if the temperature difference is 27'F, we need something like 600 * 16 = 9600 W worth of heating in the pond. Now, of course, you need to cope with winter conditions, so double that 27'F to 54'F to cope with that. The general physics laws for temperature transfer is directly proportional to the delta-temperature, so twice as large temperature delta -> twice as much heating needed to keep constant temperature -> about 20kW heating capacity. That is a mid-size boiler (one that you'd fit in a two-three bedroom house here in England). Of course, when it's warm, it won't have to run much. Oh, and this doesn't take into effect any windchill factor due to windy weather etc.

I would guess that putting an enclosure over the pond would keep off the worst of the cool would be a good idea financially. You will of course still have to heat it, but the bill for keeping the water warm will be somewhat smaller.

--
Mats

lol oh lord. that sounds ridiculously insane. haha.

[Mysticalxwhisper]

You may try this store in Maryland... I have only been there a couple of times but it is nice and it says they rescue large fish. I am not sure how far away it is from you, but I can't imagine it is more than an hour or so.

http://www.houseoftropicals.net/map-directions.html

Mike

where in maryland? is it around baltimore? cause it takes me from central jersey to aberdeen about 2 hrs.

[AlaskanCorydoras]

Hrrm. I vote you put a serious number of Endlers in there and see who wins. . . I bet the endlers would reproduce so fast Mr. Lee wouldn't be able to eat them all.

I can donate 50 to the cause. . . Oh wait it is up to 65 now.

Err. . .make that 75.

Umm. . . 80?

[MatsP]

Hrrm. I vote you put a serious number of Endlers in there and see who wins. . . I bet the endlers would reproduce so fast Mr. Lee wouldn't be able to eat them all.

I can donate 50 to the cause. . . Oh wait it is up to 65 now.

Err. . .make that 75.

Umm. . . 80?

Considering that Mr Lee is now at the stage where he takes large prey, I'd say the Endlers will not be considered food at all.

--
Mats

[Lloydy]

Maybe so, but if he just swims around with his mouth open he will act like a whale hoovering up krill

[Mike C]

Mystical,
It is to the south and west of Baltimore... I am not real familiar with New Jersey, but I had hoped you lived in the south. Still, if you can't find anything closer to you I am sure they would take him. I recall they already had several large red tails.

Mike C.

[AlaskanCorydoras]

I take it this is the reason I tell all the local LFS not to stock red tailed catfish? Some of the local stores listen, most are petco and don't.

[Yos]

I guess you'll just have to eat him back to pay for what he did to his friends.... eye for an eye... nom for a nom?

[MatsP]

Maybe so, but if he just swims around with his mouth open he will act like a whale hoovering up krill

Except that's not quite how it works. Whilst I'm sure you said it in jest, I'd like to explain how it works...

Predatory fish eats stuff that are "big enough to satisfy them". You do not see lions chase after mice - even if they are starving. Because it's too much effort.

Whales are specifically adopted to "hoovering" by having a mouth that can capture small creatures. If you look at a whale's mouth, it's got "filter plates" to capture small creatures.

If you look inside a big predatory cat(fish), it's not got a load if "vertical blinds" to catpure small things. It's got a mouth that opens big and very little to stop small things from escaping back out again. Large prey can be held by the teeth, but small fish are much harder to capture.

So, no, it can't just swim with it's mouth open.

I have seen a pond of piranha in a butterfly house. It was absolutely full of (I think) Endlers.

--
Mats

[Mysticalxwhisper]

Mystical,
It is to the south and west of Baltimore... I am not real familiar with New Jersey, but I had hoped you lived in the south. Still, if you can't find anything closer to you I am sure they would take him. I recall they already had several large red tails.

Mike C.

i found a couple places. i just have to call them today. one place is called shark aquarium. it's in jersey.

[Mysticalxwhisper]

I guess you'll just have to eat him back to pay for what he did to his friends.... eye for an eye... nom for a nom?

lmao thanks, yea you're actually not the first person to suggest that. after he ate the pleco, my roommates brother was like, "hey we can finally fry him up right?!"

we are not eating mr. lee. lol.