Black worms moved in

[shadowcat]

Set up a new 58usg tank less than a month ago, for 3 L260's and 1 L114. Fish are doing well. I fed them black worms last week and I may have over done it. I see that the worms have set up house-keeping in one corner of the tank. I see bunches of them sticking out of the gravel swaying in the current. Is this a problem or just a supply of fresh food for the fish when they notice, which maybe they haven't yet because it's a new tank.

[Richard B]

What exactly are blackworms? Are they similar to tubifex?

You might wanna feed them in a small saucer of gravel in future so any uneaten can be contained (?)

[shadowcat]

Hmm, what are blackworms??.....I knew somebody would ask me that!!...They are tiny little worms, perhaps 2-4 cm long, very popular over here as a live food. I don't know their origin, but they aren't tubifex worms, which I wouldn't feed due to their bad reputation. Apparently they are aquatic and can live indefinitly in good tank conditions, or so I read somewhere.........

[Mike_Noren]

What you're describing is, indeed, "Tubifex", ie small aquatic earthworms belonging to a range of different genera. The behavior you describe ("sticking out of the gravel swaying in the current") is typical.

[MatsP]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumbriculus_variegatus

is what's (supposedly) sold as "California blackworm"

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[Mike_Noren]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumbriculus_variegatus

is what's (supposedly) sold as "California blackworm"

I don't know if that one is different from most "tubifex", but the thing is that there are rarely any members of the genus Tubifex in what's sold sa tubifex.

[shadowcat]

So what yer sayin is that I bought tubifex, under an assumed name?!...Well THAT's annoying. I don't often feed live food because I think prepared stuff is safer, although perhaps not as nutritous. I haven't bought tubifex, by that name, in may years due to their bad rep.... So now it would seem I have started a colony in my new tank:( Oh well, they're in there already and it's likely the only way to get them out is for the fish to eat them....

[apistomaster]

California Black Worms are an aquatic worm related to earth worms. Their behavior is the same as Tubifex but they are larger and are cultured in fish free facilities.
Not only are they a widely available live food for tropical fish but are also used in massive quantities in State Fish hatcheries as a conditioning food and to enhance the growth of fingerlings.
They have a very good safety record so do not worry about them carrying any fish diseases. There are usually a few worm eating leeches in a shipment of Black worms but these few leeches do no harm to your fish. They are just a natural predator of the black worms.

In an aquarium with a substrate some uneaten worms will often establish colonies. The Plecos can't root them out but Corydoras do.
I feed them to my Hypancistrus and Peckoltia spp by using a soup bowl to contain the worms until they are eaten and to prevent them from escaping into the sand. I buy 6 pounds of Black worms every month.
You can use your gravel vacuum siphon to remove them from the substrate, then allow them to ball back up in the bucket and feed them to your fish again. They actually help make your aquarium ecosystem more complex and they eat uneaten fish food that reaches the substrate.

[Richard B]

Nice one Larry - this is the sort of info i was hoping someone would reveal.

[apistomaster]

Black worms are a very controversial subject among tropical fish keepers. Nearly all of the arguments against them are made by people who do not understand how they are raised in clean cold water and are fed foods like trout chow.

Almost none of their antagonists are aware of how extensively they are used in game fish hatcheries where disease control is of great importance so they would not use foods that had much risk of causing or introducing diseases. The same hatcheries are the single largest buyers of Brine Shrimp Eggs. They use far more brine shrimp eggs than the entire aquarium fish producers in the world combined.

So among the real professionals the issues of black worm safety has been settled long ago and only persists among the tropical fish keepers who have anecdotal horror stories but have no verifiable facts to support their positions. Problems are almost always due to feeding a batch of dying worms which have spoiled and no food, live or prepared is safe to use if it has spoiled.

[shadowcat]

Ok, I feel a lot better now. I s'pose the plec's will be able to get a few now and then and what ever other fish I put in there too since they stick themselves up out of the gravel just waiting to be picked off. You're right, just another step towards a more "natural" environment, or at least as natural as a box of water can be.......Thanks folks!!

[Mike_Noren]

They have a very good safety record so do not worry about them carrying any fish diseases.

I would say that if there is any difference in safety, it'll be due to the way they're grown, not species.

[apistomaster]

True Tubifex in collectible amounts are only found where the water is heavily polluted with manure or sewage. They require a mud or sludge substrate where black worms do not.
Black Worms require clean well oxygenated cool water and no substrate. That is why they lend themselves to commercial controlled culturing methods.

I used to collect Tubifex down stream from a cattle feed lot where the water was slow and created mud flats.
My best friend and I collected them in commercially viable quantities and supplied them to fish shops all over the Pacific Northwestern USA.
Then the Clean Water and Air Act was passed and the pollution source was removed and the worms disappeared. We were selling 100 pounds of real Tubifex a month.

I can assure you that there are some major differences between Tubifex and black worms.
Cleaned Tubifex are a food I am not afraid to use but only if I collect them and know the type and source of the pollution they thrive in.

[andywoolloo]

that's pretty much the only live food I can buy here, is the California Black worms at the fish store. When I first started fish keeping I had fed it to a my bettas who were in seperate 5 gals, i subsequently broke down one of the tanks after a very long cycle process to get the live calif black worm that had escaped and set up camp in the substrate. I was a bit freaked out by the live worm in there. And I was new to fishkeeping.

I wouldn't break down a tank over it again.