Synodontis njassae breeding?

[oliv67]

Highway

[oliv67]

Hey,

In fact after gaining more skills I'm going to try yours highway on my Honda .

Regards.

Only 300 kilometers on north east from Moscow
highway not bad

[MatsP]

Mats - sounds like invitation! . Few members of my family, sadly, have to live and work in England so it is not so hard to make a visit .
In fact after gaining more skills I'm going to try yours highway on my Honda .
Regards.

Sure, feel free to give me a PM when you are traveling in this direction. I work in Central London (near Waterloo station, which is not hard to get to by any means - although London is better traveled by foot/train than by car or motorbike - someone calculated the average speed in London by car to just over 10 km/h). It takes about 30-45 minutes to get to Wholesale Tropicals, which is one of the better shops in London.

--
Mats

[worton[pl]]

Hey,

I will let you all know when I will be heading England.
Moscow is also on my "must see" list . However it will take some time. This year I am going to spain to see the ocean - my dream since I was a kid .

Back to the topic.

Oliv, do you use hormones to spawn only one species? I mean do you create hybrids? If yes, it is possible to spawn them also or they are sterile?

Have you hear about other people who use hormones to create hybrids of plecos, loaches or other fish?


It is great you manage to spawn a clown loach . I hope you try to not create hybrids.

Regards.

[oliv67]

It takes about 30-45 minutes to get to Wholesale Tropicals, which is one of the better shops in London.

--
Mats

http://www.wholesale-tropical-fish.co.uk/price_list.htm

On sale is not present Sinodontis

[Richard B]

It takes about 30-45 minutes to get to Wholesale Tropicals, which is one of the better shops in London.

--
Mats

http://www.wholesale-tropical-fish.co.uk/price_list.htm

On sale is not present Sinodontis

That's not the company we've mentioned http://www.tropicalfishfinder.co.uk/sho ... l.asp?id=6 is the one although this isn't their website - they do have some great synos & always have good catfish Syno Clarias was the last i remember...

[MatsP]

http://www.wholesale-tropical-fish.co.uk/price_list.htm

On sale is not present Sinodontis

Wrong company - very similar name, but not the one I mean (that company is in Fareham, which is about 60km from where I live... I've never been there) . Don't know the London shop has a web-site, but here's Practical Fishkeeping's review of the shop:
http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/p ... nty=London

--
Mats

[oliv67]

2worton[pl]

I know yours not love to hybrids, therefore I shall not answer this question
I all time experiment, without it it is boring
Thank by all

[worton[pl]]

Hey,

Oliv, I can understand that .

So please tell me if hybrids are sterile? Or you can spawn them as well with hormone injections?

It would be really nice to know if you know about people who use hormones to spawn plecos . Just to make us more aware in a pet shop.

Best wishes.

[Jools]

I know yours not love to hybrids, therefore I shall not answer this question

That is true, and I don't think there is an interest in repeating such things, however this is a significant interest in what

Synodontis

have been hybridised and documenting those fish so that we can tell them apart from pure species.

Cheers,

Jools

[Richard B]

Very good points Jools - i think oliv67 could provide us with a wealth of valuable information if he is prepared to enlighten us.

On a separate point there is a video of hybrids breeding naturally & laying eggs on youtube but no info to whether the eggs were viable - maybe this info could be found?

[oliv67]

Hi.
All hybrids, known for me, Sinodontis for today are capable to duplication, there is a set of hybrids of the following (second, third) generations, in the subsequent generations at crossing a hybrid + clean kind, the splitting and return practically to a generically pure kind is observed, that is of interest at reception of some beautiful and rare kinds at which female can not in conditions of an aquarium type qualitative sexual products
Concerning Loricaridae, the application hormone is not meaningful if the fish itself qualitatively ripens and is made multiple copies by a natural way, it is necessary to create conditions, for large kinds the main criterion is volume of vital space

[sidguppy]

I know yours not love to hybrids, therefore I shall not answer this question

the reasons why most of us have no love for hybrids is because of the following reason:

-> hybrids replace the original species in a fast tempo.
wholesalers now sell hybrids wich can be bought for very little money as the genuine species to the LFS.
both LFS and hobbyists get scammed and getting the real unpolluted species is getting very hard, if not impossible

for me there is also a second reson involved and it's even more important than the first:
ETHICS>
there are things one shouldn't do. the fact that it CAN be done, is not a reason that it SHOULD be done.
we are not gods, we should not be Frankensteins.
we (as in "we , real hobbyists") we do not inject fish with dyes, we do not cut off the tailfin of live fishes, we do not chop up a fish for sushi without killing it, we do not make hybrids.

in my not so humble opinion, if you don't get this you have no respect for nature.
things like the ones I mention here are -to me- akin to rape.
it can be done, but it should not be done.
and that's the whole of it.

I all time experiment, without it it is boring

wich tells me more than I'd care to know.
out of "boredom" you create monsters........I have heard less tragic and bad reasons, but this must be a new low.
I wonder what else happens "to avoid boredom"......





@Jools and the mods etc:
I know I've been a grumpy loudmouthed bastard with a bad disposition and a really short fuse in the past, and my reaction here can be taken as insulting, but I think as a community of serious fishkeepers we have an obligation to the fishkeeping hobby.
with the impact of planetcatfish worldwide we have a fair bit of power in the catfishkeeperscommunity.
with great power comes responsibility. (spiderman rip off ;) )

and in this case we should draw the line "to here and no further". right now!
I think if we as planetcatfish get associated with the support of hybridisation of real species and the pollution of the hobby and the great natural genepool, that would be a very bad thing.

for me the buck stops here.
we have to say NO to the making and/or supporting of the making of hybrids, and we have to say it now.

[oliv67]

I only plant a fish on any taste and purse. Not everyone can afford to buy an exclusive and expensive(dear) thoroughbred fish, and having received a very similar and cheap hybrid remains to it is pleased
I do not consider as their monsters, there are very beautiful and claimed creations
It is a theme for separate conversation there will be very many opponents and defence counsels, let's not litter this dialogue

[Bas Pels]

I can only agree with Sid

I may not raise my voice the way he does, but the question remains: If foulmouthed answers are considered rude, would not the reason for these foulmouthed answers be ruder?

In my eyes, this site is by for the best I can find. I whish on cichlids the standards were as high as here on catfish. Keeping the standards as high as they are, protection is needed against pollution

pollution from hybrids
pollution from hybrid producing bastards
pollution from money hungry idiots who ask 'did you ever try? How can you know?' in order to keep doing ther destructive trade

I know bastard is a nasty word in English. That is why I used it

[Richard B]

My twopenneth...

I really detest hybrids - not the fish themselves - they have no say in the matter.

- the fact they are polluting the hobby & spoiling it. If i could persuade people to NOT do it i would. Can i have an influence? I'm not sure - i'd like to think so.

What i'd like oliv67 to contribute is names of species hybridised, pics if possible etc so we at PC can clearly identify hybrids as such & thus help fishkeepers from making costly purchases of "imitation species" - to enable us to steer clear & help others steer clear of them. To inform people of the state of play of the hobby regarding the dreaded hybrids. I physically cannot prevent people producing them or prevent people from buying them if the want to & understand what they are & how they are made, but i'd like the chance to know exactly what is what & "spread the word" of avoidance at all costs.

If i didn't make this crystal clear in my earlier post then i hope this addresses the matter.

If i could, i'd rather have never seen the emergence of hybrids, over winning the lottery.

HYBRIDS OUT!

[oliv67]

I study long time this site, many photos of hybrids now have appeared. I have not understood precisely what exactly you want? That I have told on a photo what kinds were crossed among themselves or to define(determine) a hybrid it or thoroughbred Sino? Very difficultly it to tell with complete reliance it is a lot of hybrids from hybrids of different generations, but I can try

Birth Sinodontis
http://www.hotbox.ru/download.php/?file ... ndr&lng=ru

[MatsP]

Jools would like it, if you can provide pictures of hybrids with known parents, e.g a picture of S. decora x S. nigrita - whatever you happen to have.

See http://www.planetcatfish.com/core/pp_contribute.php, item 3 for how you can send pictures to Jools.

Any hybrid that you know the parent's of would be great. Most identified hybrids, we have to GUESS the parents.

--
Mats

[oliv67]

The thank, at me is what to add in the catalogue of a site

[MatsP]

The thank, at me is what to add in the catalogue of a site

Not sure what you mean, but yes, the idea would be to add photos of known hybrid combinations to the Cat-eLog - that way, we can tell what known hybrids look like better than we can today - and we can say "Yes, that's a cross between Synodontis X and Synodontis Y".

It would really be helpfull if we can have such a thing.

I'm personally not a fan of hybrids, but if people can see what the hybrids look like, then they can make an informed choice. Right now, if you see something that looks very much like S. decora, there really isn't anything in the Cat-eLog to tell them "This is what the hybrid of S. decora crossed with Synodontis X looks like".

--
Mats

[andywoolloo]

the reasons why most of us have no love for hybrids is because of the following reason:

-> hybrids replace the original species in a fast tempo.
wholesalers now sell hybrids wich can be bought for very little money as the genuine species to the LFS.
both LFS and hobbyists get scammed and getting the real unpolluted species is getting very hard, if not impossible

for me there is also a second reson involved and it's even more important than the first:
ETHICS>
there are things one shouldn't do. the fact that it CAN be done, is not a reason that it SHOULD be done.
we are not gods, we should not be Frankensteins.
we (as in "we , real hobbyists") we do not inject fish with dyes, we do not cut off the tailfin of live fishes, we do not chop up a fish for sushi without killing it, we do not make hybrids.

in my not so humble opinion, if you don't get this you have no respect for nature.
things like the ones I mention here are -to me- akin to rape.
it can be done, but it should not be done.
and that's the whole of it.

Thank you sid for breaking it down like that, I understand more now the reasons that it is so very bad.
I used to wonder how some fish stores get away with selling hybrids listed as purebreds and now they are selling hybrids listed as hybrids which seems almost worse. Or just as bad.

[Jools]

Hmm, I don't think it's so simple. If we take the ethical argument then you have to apply that all over the place to things like the millions of fancy goldfish out there. The thing about hybrids is they also take pressure off wild stocks. They probably also have a lower carbon footprint - discuss that one! Don't get me wrong, I don't like the idea of a fishes brain being put in a blender, but then I'm not a great fan of extinction either.

As to the money argument, I've yet to see a £100 hybrid...

Now, if I thought not buying hybrids would help, I'd say jump on the bandwagon, but it won't. Dyed fish is one thing and has been dramatically reduced by lobbying, hybrids are another as they can't be so easily detected.

So, on this one, I'm more inclined to "legalise" it rather than drive it underground. If we know what these mudbloods are and can document where they have come from then more folks will know about it.

It would then leave them with the choice of buyer. And I like living in a society that has choice.

Jools

[Richard B]

On the point of expensive hybrids - i've not seen £100 fish yet either - however many years ago a well-known east Midlands store had granulosa £40 for 1 inch SL fish - this was before genuine young had been seen & these turned out to be

Synodontis sp_hybrid(2)

- syno keepers were NOT happy - the store sold them in good faith & i don't believe the store knew them to be hybrids.

[Jools]

On the point of expensive hybrids - i've not seen £100 fish yet either - however many years ago a well-known east Midlands store had granulosa £40 for 1 inch SL fish - this was before genuine young had been seen & these turned out to be

Synodontis sp_hybrid(2)

- syno keepers were NOT happy - the store sold them in good faith & i don't believe the store knew them to be hybrids.

Now THAT is a good case in point. I'm note sure of the "in good faith" argument, and I hear it all the time that the LFS sell the fish as "that's what they came in as", however, again, if there were pictures of the fish at that size, someone might have been the wiser...

Jools

[Bas Pels]

From a legistic point of view (I'm Dutch, and the UK system might be quite different, just as anywhere else) the seller who sells something which later turns out to be something else, will have to take them back - if requested, however, one will need a receipt to proove where the fish was bought - and I have never kept these (or gotten them)

The seller, than, can go to his wholeseller, and so on. Obviously, the one who did business with someone he can not find back will, in the end, be the real victim

Good faith does not matter in this. It could matter if someone would put criminal chagrges, but not in a civil matter as this one

[Jools]

I know, I mean I've been sold a discus as an x-ray tetra for goodness sake, but again it's not practicable which brings us around to my argument again which is that is is better to know what's out there, which will result in more occurrences of them being called what they are.

Jools