Synodontis camelopardalis and soloni

[jippo]

I'm little bit confused after reading different sources about recognise S.camelopardalis and soloni.

Here is my camelopardalis, at least I believe that it is, http://picasaweb.google.fi/jippo76/Monn ... 6887220194
In Seegers The Catfishes of Africa he doesn't seem reliable that humeral process with this species is upward-curved like in Poll's revision. In my fish humeral process is pretty much same as Poll's revision. Fish is about 16cm TL. In my opinion the fish in Seegers book is not camelopardalis.

Other problem is very big and pretty fat soloni, fish is about 19cm TL, http://picasaweb.google.fi/jippo76/Monn ... 8589550754 / http://picasaweb.google.fi/jippo76/Monn ... 8460008578
Humerall process with this fish is usually curved down but sometimes it's pointed straight? One thing is black membrant in beginning of maxillary barbels, does soloni have it or can you find it only from S.smiti? But with S.smiti humerall process with adult fish should be rounded. My opinion is soloni even the fish is very big to be soloni but I have also 20cm TL S.brichardi so I know that they can grow very big in aquarium.

Sorry about bad quality pictures.

What do you think about this, am I correct with these species?

[jippo]

Anybody has any idea? Richard B, Birger, sidguppy, Chrysichtys...

[Richard B]

I must've missed this first time round, sorry

FWIW, my opinions are...

Jippo's camelopardalis is one - unless it is an undescribed species from the caudalis clade, maybe?

Jippo's soloni is one.

Seegars pic of camelopardalis is a soloni.

Some of my confusion originates from historic photographic literature like Sands CotW where, at the time we took identifications to be mostly given for certain species. As an example, S.petricola with a pic of lucipinnis, actually that's a bad example,

Bagroides melapterus

being misidentified as

Leiocassis poecilopterus

in vol 5 is perhaps a better example, or in vol 3 Tetranematichthys being identified as Parauchenipterus.

In these forums i have debated previously the id of aterrimus - the fish pic in cat-e-log is, i believe now aterrimus but the fish in Sands CotW (which i saw in his shop) is clearly another species although we took it to be aterrimus at the time - that one is i believe an undescribed specie, a true inverting dwarf like nigriventis & contractus

Any thoughts on this Jippo?

[jippo]

In these forums i have debated previously the id of aterrimus - the fish pic in cat-e-log is, i believe now aterrimus but the fish in Sands CotW (which i saw in his shop) is clearly another species although we took it to be aterrimus at the time - that one is i believe an undescribed specie, a true inverting dwarf like nigriventis & contractus

Any thoughts on this Jippo?

For me it's hard to say, I don't have those books from Sands but I have seen that pic from aterrimus. What is reliable pic from WC aterrimus, I have no idea. In new book from Seegers it's pretty reliable pic from aterrimus, I think, but it look totally different than cat-e-log. So what can you say, maybe there is more similar undescribe species like aterrimus out there, like there is nigriventris zebra kutu.

But thanks for your opinion, now i'm not alone with my thoughts.

[Redcatman]

I would say this fish is S. soloni. Firstly, there is a membrane at the base of the maxillary barbels which is present in soloni but not in carmelopardalis. The mandibular barbels look pretty much the same in both species. Secondly, the adipose fin appears to be relatively longer and not quite as deep which fits more with soloni. The humeral process is also closer to soloni. Look at the plates at the back of Poll's book. Soloni has a shallower humeral process compared with camelopardalis. Hope this helps.

[jippo]

I would say this fish is S. soloni. Firstly, there is a membrane at the base of the maxillary barbels which is present in soloni but not in carmelopardalis. The mandibular barbels look pretty much the same in both species. Secondly, the adipose fin appears to be relatively longer and not quite as deep which fits more with soloni. The humeral process is also closer to soloni. Look at the plates at the back of Poll's book. Soloni has a shallower humeral process compared with camelopardalis. Hope this helps.

Are you talking about first or second syno in this topic? First one I think is camelopardalis and second soloni.

[Redcatman]

Whoops, sorry about that. Yes, I agree that the second one is soloni. I am not sure about the first one, but camelopardalis is perhaps the more likely. Although to me, the humeral process and the adipose fin is more like a typical soloni, the colour pattern is more like a typical camelopardalis. However, we do not know too much about how pattern varies with population origin in these fish and of course in a number of Synodontis pattern alters with age. Is there any membrane evident at the base of the maxillary barbels? If yes, I would say it is soloni, but if no then camelopardalis.

[jippo]

There is no membrant with camelopardalis like soloni has. There is also pretty much difference with snout between these two fishes. Soloni has undercurved snout but camelopardalis doesn't, with camelopardalis snout is more straight.

[jippo]

I just notice that there is no camelopardalis at cat-e-log. Is there some reason?

[MatsP]

I just notice that there is no camelopardalis at cat-e-log. Is there some reason?

The only reason I can think of is that it hasn't been added because we have no picture or other information on this species [Jools prioritizes adding species that he has pictures to show for - since there are probably about 1000 of the scientifically described species missing that we have no picture of, and there are about 10-15 new species added to the Cat-eLog each week [some of which are not described], mostly WITH pictures].

It S. camelopardalis has no synonyms, so it wouldn't accidentally be in the Cat-eLog under an old name.

--
Mats