Perrunichthys or Leiarius? loads of pics!

[sidguppy]

There's a very long debate at the Dutch cichlidforum about the identity of the following fish!
It's in Madracing's tank (he's got 2), and here are some new pictures.

he's got them imported around 1999-1998 and was told these are from Venezuela and Perrunichthys perruno.
for me this is Leiarius spp (probably longibarbis), because of the number of rays in the dorsal fin although the pattern isn't the usual.
if I use the description in the catelog, the fish have too many rays in the dorsal to be Perrunichthys.

does Leiarius occur together with Perrunivhthys or no?

also; did Venezuela export fish from the area of Perrunichthys in the late nineties? AFAIK they do not, but I'm not so sure anymore.
if anyone can clarify this, it would be great!














one for the experts, cause the debate has been going on for waayyyyy too long!

greetings & tnx
SG

[MADRacing]

thanks Sid...

[Martin S]

Sid
Hope you don't mind - added them in again as couldn't see them at all!
Martin

[MatsP]

It's a

Leiarius

- looking at the dorsal fin, it has more than 8 dorsal rays by my count.

Key to identification here:

Perrunichthys perruno

--
Mats

[MADRacing]

But which one the longibarbus or the pictus or.......

[MatsP]

I'm no expert at these, but I'd say L. pictus after looking at pictures and reading the "identification" sections. Not 100% sure tho'. They are not the easiest fish [in my understanding] to differentiate.

--
Mats

[Marc van Arc]

I'd say it's L. longibarbis, for L. pictus will keep its pattern even as an adult which makes it easy to differentiate it from its cousin longibarbis (see pictures in Clog).

[MADRacing]

The barbles of my cat are just one color just plane dark brown, the longibarbus got two tone barbles.....
Also is the undersite of my cat completly light colored without dark lineing....
As we look at the Perrunichthys we see these specs also...but then again the dorsal fins......it has 10 in stead of 8......

[sidguppy]

yup, that's why I started doubting they were Perrunichthys

in these 2 pictures I can coun t at least 11 (!) soft rays, not counting the dorsal spine:

[MADRacing]

Woehahahaa
But I still wanna know whay I have...for at least 9 years......

[CFC]

I'd bet money on them being Leiarius longibarbus, L.pictus has a distinctive pale stripe which runs from before the dorsal fin down across the body towards the anal vent, in adult fish it is less obvious than in juviniles but still visable when looked for.

How long have they been together and what size tank is it? I'm suprised that they tollarate each others company, when i attempted to keep two L.pictus in a 900g tank with a 48 square foot base the result was all out war until they were seperated to prevent them killing each other.

[sidguppy]

these 2 are a pair. I've seen the bellies and the overal shape up close (as in: nose to the glass and the cats not moving 1 inch )

I've seen the tank and it's big, no idea how much gallons in there

but I was surprised too. Leiarius has a reputation for being very territorial. these 2 are pristine......

[necrocanis]

Longibarbis 100% and still no solid evidence from anyone of a true perruno in captivity.