New RIO 300 tank

[slakey]

Ok, hmm this is hard.

Is the L134 and L147 good algae eaters? It doesn't say they are on their profile bit, cos I do quite like them

Basically I'd like a 6.8" max pleco that eats algae That will do well with 10+ corydoras and angels.

[MatsP]

None of the

Peckoltia

species are good algae eaters. And it won't matter what genus you choose, the Angel-fish will attack any fish that it feels interferes with it's (breeding-)territory - not specifically bristlenoses.

--
Mats

[slakey]

Well I've spotted quite a few plecs that I like.

Hypancistrus sp(l236)

Oligancistrus sp(l353)

Ancistrus dolichopterus

Pseudolithoxus sp(l328)

[Mod edit: Use persistant CLOG tags --Mats]

[MatsP]

Yes, there are lots of nice looking plecos out there. Many of which (particularly the ones in the genus you just listed) would go well in your tank.

--
Mats

[slakey]

Cancel looking at plecs.

It seems I can't keep them alive :/

[slakey]

Also at the same store they've got about 3" green phantom plec, loads of 3" tiger king plec

So after have a brief look on here about Green Phantom Plecs, all is good.

They grow to 7.5inches, pH 6.0-7.8, temperature 22-25C and they are a effective algae eater, it normally lives in fast flowing water, but can adapt to calmer water.

Could this be the plec for my Rio300?

[MatsP]

I have a feeling that

Baryancistrus demantoides

is not that efficient an algae eater, but I may be wrong [I haven't kept that species].

--
Mats

[slakey]

Hmm well I'm just going with what it says for that species on this site... If it is not, then it is false information, something I didn't expect from this site.

[Martin S]

Hmm well I'm just going with what it says for that species on this site... If it is not, then it is false information, something I didn't expect from this site.

Can you explain what you expect from a fish listed as an 'effective algae eater'? No plec, even if listed as an 'effective algae eater' will clean the glass enough that you will not have to perform regular maintenance by cleaning the front and/or side glass of your tank. Also, not all algae types are fed on by 'algae eating' fish, so you will find that the more 'slimey' algaes will not be touched at all, whereas the real green 'fur' algae is more edible.
The information given in the cat-elog is based on research of both wild and captive bred fish and while they may have been seen to feed on algae, that is not a sufficient diet for them to survive in captivity, so will require other foods.
HTH
Martin

[slakey]

Yes I know that...
And it does say it needs a varied diet, but if that information is wrong, it should not be on there.

[racoll]

Baryancistrus are very good algae eaters actually. They are aufwuchs/biofilm grazers, but do appreciate some meat as well as veg/algae. Most people seem to refer to them as meat eaters, but this is not consistent with their dentition and long gut.

temperature 22-25C

Now this is wrong I feel. Upper Orinoco plecs do much better at warmer temperatures, especially in the months after import when they need to build up their reserves. Look at about 28C initially, but this could be reduced a couple of degrees when the fish has settled down (this will take several months).

Be sure not to confuse the two green phantom plecs,

Hemiancistrus subviridis

and

Baryancistrus demantoides

.

Yes, they would work in your tank, but they are delicate and you will need to be double sure the tank is matured, suitable to their needs, and that the stock you are buying is in top condition.

Again, I would also recommend a species group, rather than an individual.

[racoll]

Best conquer the bristlenose before moving onto wild caught plecs though....

[slakey]

Yeah, well it's gonna be awhile before I put any fish in yet.

Still need to get loads of things.

Checklist:

Substrate - Check *25kg dorset pea gravel, more may be needed*
Wood - Check *4 pieces at the minute, but want more*
Plants - None *Need to add water, but can't do that until dad has painted the wall behind the tank*
2nd Filter - None *I'll be buying a Fluval 4 Internal Filter*
Air Pumps - None *I'll be buying about 2-3 Hydor Ario 4's*
Fish - None *Still making stocking list*

[racoll]

Substrate - Check *25kg dorset pea gravel, more may be needed*

I would go with a thin layer of sand rather than gravel, which can trap muck and foul the water. Sand looks much nicer, is cheaper and will be better for your Corydoras especially. Thick layers of gravel can lead to the loss of barbels in these fish.

2nd Filter - None *I'll be buying a Fluval 4 Internal Filter*

Save money in other areas by all means, but I would definately get an external filter rather than an internal Fluval, especially if you want to keep exotic plecs. I've used them, and internal Fluvals really are a waste of space, literally.

Look on ebay for cheap second hand external filters. That's where I got one of my Eheims for less than £20.

[slakey]

I can't have a thin layer of sand if I want plants... and I need atleast a good 2inches of sand for plants, and I was advised that gravel is safer, because of the pockets that is caused in sand.

Also I'll be getting an external filter later on.

[MatsP]

If you want to keep corys, you should definitely have sant in the tank. As long as it's not excessively thick, it's fine.

If you still feel gravel is the right thing, I'd say the fine dorset gravel is the best choice (the stones being 2-3mm diameter).

In my RIO400, I have half the tank in gravel and half with play-sand - the sand is deep enough to reach a tad over the edge trim on the tank. That is one 25kg bag of playsand. The other half is about equal depth, and probably about one 25kg bag of the finer dorset gravel. I have plants in both sides of the tank (but most of them are actually on the sand half). [of course, having big Satanoperca in the tank, there is gravel and sand mixed in all over the tank, but most of the sand is in one half, and most of the gravel on the other half].

I have sand in almost all of my tanks - only two are "sand-free". No problem in any of them.

Another option, if you want plants, is to build "gardens" with some plant substrate, and ring-fence that with some material (perhaps cermic tiles "glued" with aquarium silicon), or use potted plants in the thin layer of sand.

--
Mats

[slakey]

I may well do the half and half myself. I haven't had any dangerous pockets with the sand in my 125 yet *touch wood*.

I spose I could put the gravel for the filter part, under the internal, and the sand on the left side.

*idea!* are breeze blocks ok for aquariums?

[MatsP]

*idea!* are breeze blocks ok for aquariums?

I wouldn't put breeze blocks in my tank. Terracotta (bricks and plant pots for example) I'd happily put in, but breeze blocks are cement-based, and I wouldn't trust that to not leech chemicals into the water.

I've seen people use thin pieces of slate to separate areas within the tank.

--
Mats

[slakey]

I was thinking maybe put something like a brick down say 1/4 of the tank, and put all the pea gravel there and on the other side it's be sand...

[MatsP]

Yeah, that would separate it, as long as you don't have big fishes that like digging - my Satanoperca does that all day, every day, and they carry the sand/gravel in their mouth, swimming around, dropping a bit here and there.

--
Mats

[slakey]

It'd seperate it and also give a multi level. So for some of the plants that need more substrate to root well can go in the pea gravel section.

Any idea where I can get terracotta bricks?

[racoll]

Pea gravel is pretty much useless for growing rooted plants. A good planted substrate will consist of 2-3" quartz grit, sand and a nutritious medium like flourite (or similar).

However, you can maintain a very nice unrooted planted tank with ~1cm of sand (good for catfish) and use rhizome plants like java fern (Microsorium pteropus) and Anubias spp. on your wood/rocks, along with some floating species like pennywort (Hydrocotyle ranunculoides), hornwort (Ceratophyllum demersum) and Amazon frogbit (Limnobium laevigatum). These are all dead easy species to grow with no nutritious substrate, standard lighting and no CO2 required.

[slakey]

Hmm I may well do that

But what about the big section under the Juwel Filter?

And what can I do with 25kg of pea gravel?

[slakey]

Hopefully the living room should be getting painted next week
*tank is in living room*

so that means I can start soaking my wood.

Or would my carbon sponge take out the tannins?

Either way I can start to get my tank ready after the room has been painted
Yay!

[Bas Pels]

It would not hurt if the tannins were remouved, but yopur carbon sponge will take them - and thus get satisfied which means it does no longer function

Now, on one hand you will not need a carbon sponge in a normal functiion tank, su it does not need to be replaced, but on the other hand, should you need to use medicins, carbon does remouve it from the water - after curing the fishes. So perhaps this sponge is something to keep in reserve?

[MatsP]

Hmm I may well do that

But what about the big section under the Juwel Filter?

I happen to have sand under it.

And what can I do with 25kg of pea gravel?

We can probably come up with some silly suggestions, but I would have a chat with the shop and see if you could perhaps swap it for something else that you'd rather have [one thing you will certainly need is a long gravel-vac to siphon out your deep tank, for example]. Unless you have ripped the bag, it's hardly like it can get "damaged" by being transported to your house and back to the shop again?

--
Mats

[slakey]

Funny thing you mention rip.

As the pea gravel got 2 small holes in the bag today as I was taking it out of the cabinet, they may be small holes but some gravel still leaked out...

So let your silly suggestions commense

By the way won't the sand go into the filter?

*On another note

I got a Large Size Unipac Aqua Sand in black

Is this stuff safe to use? Like any negatives about using it?

I choose that as it was the only sand they had in except coral and marine, cichlid sand. Plus I thought the black colour would bring out the colour in the fish and the plants, and also go with my black background.

[racoll]

By the way won't the sand go into the filter?

Not if you make sure the filter inlet is 3-4" above the sand.

I got a Large Size Unipac Aqua Sand in black

Is this stuff safe to use? Like any negatives about using it?

Sounds good. As far as I know, black sand packaged for aquaria will be safe, as long as it didn't mention anything about coral, cichlid or marine on the packaging.

Remember to give it a really good rinse.

[slakey]

Doesn't say it's for marine, cichlid or if it's coral sand.

Just 'Unipac Pet Care' 'Unipac Aqua Sand - Black'

Also if I don't put it all the way to the bottom of the filter, dirt will build up under there

[MatsP]

Doesn't say it's for marine, c*****d or if it's coral sand.

Just 'Unipac Pet Care' 'Unipac Aqua Sand - Black'

Also if I don't put it all the way to the bottom of the filter, dirt will build up under there

If you are talking of the Juwel Jumbo filter that comes with the RIO300, the intakes of that filter is quite high up, so sand will not be sucked up into that. I also have a variety of external filters with sand under them, and although I find a few teaspoons of sand each time I clean the filters, it's not a problem - any decent designed filter (such as Eheim, TetraTec) will have the water flow into the bottom of the filter, then layers of filter media, then the pump to feed the water back to the tank. This means that the sand has to flow through all that filter media to reach the pump [which is where the problems can happen].

The Unipac is meant to go in Aquariums, so I doubt that it's a problem.

--
Mats