Top Swim Level Species Recommendation

KSUpilot · Post by **KSUpilot** » 18 Jun 2007, 17:53

Right now I am having some health issues in my tank, but I am confident that it will soon be sorted out.
I am looking to replace my dead cats with something new sometime in late July. (This should give everything time to stabilize again)

I want to get something that will hang out more at the upper swimming levels (so most cats are therefore out of the question) so they bother my Pictus, Syno, Cory, and Otto.

I was thinking of Blue Danio as they are quick, peaceful, and rather nice looking. (Not to mention they are hardy and pretty inexpensive)

Just wondering if anyone has these in there with Cats (all of my Cats are peaceful and relatively non-territorial)

Also, are there any species of cats that hang out at the upper levels only? I had an uppside down catfish but haven't had too much success with them.

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 18 Jun 2007, 22:22

Have a look at this:
http://www.danios.info/

Highly recommended (dither)fish.

KSUpilot · Post by **KSUpilot** » 19 Jun 2007, 21:45

Thanks for that site. My local Petsmart has some Long Finned Blue Danios. I'm planning on buy 3 or 4.

I also need to buy another Cory, I am down to one right now and since the other one has died it has been looking less active. This might be just because the tank is still settling again.

Do I have anything to worry about if the Cory is solo for another two weeks or so? I don't want a suicidal lonely fish on my hands!

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 19 Jun 2007, 23:52

I don't know how many fishes your tank can take, but pls be aware that both Danios and Corys are shoalers.
Two Corys and 3-4 Danios won't do imo.
They'll survive, but won't show their usual behaviour. And that's a pity, not only for them but for you as well.

hellocatfish · Post by **hellocatfish** » 20 Jun 2007, 00:05

I have a longfinned danio and some regular and neon Zebra Danios in with my cories and a cichlid. They are hardy in general, but I did go through losing a few due to some kind of wasting disease they are prone to. At first I thought it was tuberculosis but they never developed any lesions or other signs other than going from robust to emaciated practically overnight. I lost a few cories to similar symptoms but once my tank was stabilized on all parameters and treating the fish with Jungle Buddies Anti-Parasite and Anti-Fungal tablets, everyone has been looking good.

Personality wise, Danios are very annoying yet amusing. They rush at the food and literally gorge themselves until they look like they will burst and I have to put in yet more food just to ensure the cories get it--because my Danios have learned to become efficient bottom feeders, too. They learn by observation and can do just about anything and go anywhere a cory can go. So hiding a sinking wafer in the cory caves doesn't work--it just gets filled with Danios. Even my Cichlid, who could probably eat Danios for lunch if she wanted to, has to muscle her way through them to get to her food. And I've seen them nip her!

But once the food is all gone, they get along with everyone pretty well and are nice to look at, very active, and not easily spooked or stressed, which is important if your tank is still new and needs some hands-on care from time to time.

I have found I have to have at least 10 or you get nonstop bullying between individuals. It can become very bad, very persistent. They sometimes nip the cories if a cory is where they want to be. But the cories seem to like the Danios anyway. I've seen them school together on occasion.

That's the basics. If I had it to do all over again, I still would, even though they sometimes get on my nerves. Their hardiness and attractiveness and ability to thrive in just about any kind of pH or temperature makes them worth it. You get a lot of the benefits of similarly sized tetras without as much fussing over water chemistry.

KSUpilot · Post by **KSUpilot** » 20 Jun 2007, 14:02

The Danios do look nice, but they do sound like they might get into the Catfish's territory.

I really liked my Ghost Catfish, but they were the first ones to go as soon as my tank became unbalanced. The good thing about them was that though they were Catfish, they did not bother eating the sinking wafers, and instead came up to the top to feed.

I might look into some Tetras. I am a little more familiar with them and I know they are hardy. When I was younger we had a few zebra tetras thrown in with an Angelfish. We went on vacation for a week and the Angelfish decided that the 2 week feeder wafer wasn't enough and moved in and ate all of the Tetras but one. That one lived happily for 5 more years with one eye.

I'm thinking about Neon Tetras, they should add a lot of color to the tank.

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 20 Jun 2007, 22:42

If your pictus survives the odd disease you're having at the moment, the neons are sitting ducks at night and will vanish one after the other.
You have to find something with a higher body shape. Now you could say that Danios have a similar body size as Neons, but contrary to Danios Neons rest near the bottom.
But you could as well get the pictus out. Neons and corys go very well together.

KSUpilot · Post by **KSUpilot** » 21 Jun 2007, 00:04

I was just thinking that could be a problem. I went to Petsmart and saw that many of the Tetras were closer to the bottom. And they are small enough to be Pictus or Syno food.

Any success with Fancy Guppies? They seem to hang out at the top more and are a bit larger.

So right now it seems to be either Long Finned Blue Danios or Fancy Guppies.

GreenSynoMan · Post by **GreenSynoMan** » 21 Jun 2007, 00:39

I would assume when you say "Zebra tetra" you actually are talking about zebra danios. Zebra, leopard, and blue danios are all about the same, as far as behavior and requirements.
Neon tetras can be pretty picky in regards to pH and water hardness. Where I am, that's a serious issue, because our water is extremely hard, and the pH runs around 8.

KSUpilot wrote:The Danios do look nice, but they do sound like they might get into the Catfish's territory.

I really liked my Ghost Catfish, but they were the first ones to go as soon as my tank became unbalanced. The good thing about them was that though they were Catfish, they did not bother eating the sinking wafers, and instead came up to the top to feed.

I might look into some Tetras. I am a little more familiar with them and I know they are hardy. When I was younger we had a few zebra tetras thrown in with an Angelfish. We went on vacation for a week and the Angelfish decided that the 2 week feeder wafer wasn't enough and moved in and ate all of the Tetras but one. That one lived happily for 5 more years with one eye.

I'm thinking about Neon Tetras, they should add a lot of color to the tank.

KSUpilot · Post by **KSUpilot** » 21 Jun 2007, 00:51

Yeah, I meant Zebra Danio.

I had problems with Neon Tetras in our first tank...they never seemed to last. Our water isn't too good here either.

The Danios seem to be pretty easy and the Long Fins look a bit bigger.

I saw at the store that the Guppies require salt.

I have one Spotted Cory...is it ok to mix in another species of Cory. Will they get along?

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 21 Jun 2007, 10:28

KSUpilot wrote:I saw at the store that the Guppies require salt.

Not necessary. First of all, almost all guppies nowadays are captive bred, and they are certainly not bred in brackish water. They are also fairly adaptable. They do like/prefer hard water with a alkaline pH, but salt shouldn't be necessary.

I have one Spotted Cory...is it ok to mix in another species of Cory. Will they get along?

Mixing different species of Cory is OK, but I, and many others, think it's better to have "more fish of fewer species" rather than "few of many different species". They are happiest with their own kind, and you get more of their natural behaviour in that situation.

--
Mats

KSUpilot · Post by **KSUpilot** » 21 Jun 2007, 23:47

Not sure about this, but would it be a bad idea to get your common Feeder Minnows? They are quick and a bit bigger than tetras. And I guess it would be nice to save 3 Minnows that normally would be fish food.
The only thing I am worried about is the conditions that they are kept in. Aren't those tanks filled with disease?
Still looks like the Long Finned Danios are the best.

Once all of this stuff in my tank clears up I'm going to start by getting my Cory a friend. I was going to do this where I originally got him, however all of the Spotted Corys are gone. There were one or two dead Albinos in another tank. Not so sure about the conditions in those tanks.

KSUpilot · Post by **KSUpilot** » 23 Jun 2007, 02:15

I'm beginning to think against the idea of getting some common community fish.
My original goal was to the have a tank full of catfish. I'd hate to give that goal up now just because I had a rough two weeks.

I'm now going to use my head more and not buy catfish that just look cool or sound cool, I'm going to "RTFM" as they say (thats read the friggin manual) and go with simple, hardy, catfish like Corys.

Sure its great to see Danios swimming together, but I really want to see this Cory schooling behavior. I'm thinking of getting another spotted cory for the one I already have and two albinos (as they just look so interesting!) So instead of 3 Danios, I'll go with 3 Corys.

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 23 Jun 2007, 09:51

KSUpilot wrote: I really want to see this Cory schooling behavior.
So instead of 3 Danios, I'll go with 3 Corys.

I can't look into your wallet, but as said above it's very unlikely you'll see shoaling behaviour in 4 Corys (let alone 3 Danios).
Why not add 6 to the one you already have instead of 3? Indeed still not a school, but a small group should also do the trick. Four specimen will never become a group ime; you just have 4 Corys that occasionally bump into one another.

hellocatfish · Post by **hellocatfish** » 23 Jun 2007, 10:20

Yeah, in small quarters the danios would really bother your cories. Cories are sweet and take so much in stride, it would be a shame to subject them to the pushiness of Danios. I've got my tank decorated to where most of the time the cories have places they can go to get away from the stripey barbarians.

An all cory tank would be great. What size is the community tank you are planning? A 20 gallon long (longer but shorter in height than the standard 20 gallon) would work out well for cories. I couldn't tell you how many would thrive in that size, though. It depends on your filtration. I don't know anything about pictus other than what I read here, so I will steer clear of making any comments about how to incorporate yours into a planned cory community.

The peppered cories (c paleatus) are the hardiest ones I have had thus far. I've lost about one of each of every kind of cory I've gotten but never a paleatus, not even my original who saw the other cories go through the bad times. I even had a paleatus that came from a bad tank develop pop-eye, but he recovered nicely in his hospital tank with his sickly "twin" from the same bad LFS tank). My greenish colored c Aeneus (green bronze cories) from PetsMart have done well, too, and I didn't lose any of them, either, but they're a squirrely bunch. They were nervous from the beginning and never friendly. My albino aeneus are friendly. Sterba--once I got driftwood and plants in the tank I almost never see them--though on rare occasions they do come out to swim with the green Aeneus cories. The panda cories are always out and about and even though there are only 3 of them, they swim together quite often. But that is not the same as when I had about 10 and they shoaled together. They are delicate--I don't recommend them to you just yet, thought they are delightful. Mine like to hang out with the cichlid...they are the only ones she lets into her cave and whenever I gravel vac, they all go to hide under her.

Paleatus have personality and hardiness. Albino Aeneus do, too. I don't see any reason not to have 2 species if that's what you really want to do. They will enjoy each other's company.

Of all the kinds I have, so far I've only seen the Paleatus spawn. I didn't get any eggs or fry out of them, though. Well, maybe--but if I did I'm sure they got eaten before I would have seen them.

kcmt01 · Post by **kcmt01** » 25 Jun 2007, 01:40

About half a dozen White Cloud Mountain minnows should do. Cheap, hardy, and attractive; and they won't get quite as large as danios.

KSUpilot · Post by **KSUpilot** » 26 Jun 2007, 15:37

The White Clouds sound pretty interesting. They should liven up my tank a bit.

I found a store that has some great looking Corys. They are active and look healthy. The only complaint with them is that their signs suck.
They still have a Pictus labeled as an Angelicus Catfish. They still have a happy tankful of "Hi-Fin Burmese Cory Catfish" which actually are some sort of Syno-mutts (but great fish none-the-less, have one and he is great)
And their Corys are not separated by species, and they have large assorted Cories and Small assorted Cories.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 26 Jun 2007, 16:06

If you search the web and ignore all the hits on that appear as the "best match", you will find that is sometimes called Angelicus Catfish - so they are not REALLY wrong.

It's not a good sign, however, that they are mixing different corys in the same tank.

And of course, syno-hybrids are definitely not Burmese by any means, nor are they by any broad or narrow definition "Cory" - they are catfish, and perhaps also "Hi-Fin", so they aren't COMPLETELY wrong, but almost...

Unfortunately, some areas are more blessed with good fish-shops than other areas. The denser the population, the better your chance is to get a good shop, but it's by no means guaranteed that the local one(s) is/are the any better just because you are in a big city area.

--
Mats

--
Mats

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 26 Jun 2007, 16:14

MatsP wrote:And of course, syno-hybrids are definitely not Burmese by any means, nor are they by any broad or narrow definition "Cory" - they are catfish, and perhaps also "Hi-Fin", so they aren't COMPLETELY wrong, but almost...

They are not even "Hi-Fin", so they're definitely going for the first prize in the "most incorrectly labelled catfish" competition.

KSUpilot · Post by **KSUpilot** » 26 Jun 2007, 17:11

The signs suck in this particular shop, but the fish are great.

Just ran up to Petsmart to check out the White Clouds. Can't beat the price at 99 cents each. I came home with 3.
I'm going to see how they do and then buy 3 more if they do ok.

catfishguy3 · Post by **catfishguy3** » 12 Jul 2007, 15:50

I have a 75 gallon with two peckoltia sabajis, three queen arabesques, a syno petricola and a young(small) leopard pleco, L-114. For dither fish and to get some movement in the tank since my cats are like vampires and only come out at night, I added a dozen fancy guppies and they do fine. They're very active, and attractive little fish. They breed constantly and the males are always harrassing the females. Since they eat their own young, not many survive and I don't get a population explosion. They don't much bother the food I feed to the cats, as it's too big for them. I give them flakes 2-3 times a day and they seem quite happy.