A River Runs Through It. pt. 1

Post by **Shane** » 24 Dec 2004, 02:01

Got the first part of my river tank put together tonight. Here are some photos... Tank is a 45 gallon. 48 inches long X 12 inches wide X 17 inches high (122cmX30cmX43cm)

Parts for the project.

Put together

I had not planned for the center manifold runner to be off center but had to adapt my design as I could not find the type of fitting I needed to do this.

Another view

Filter end. Three Marineland sponges. Each rated at 40 gallons.

Power end. Three Marineland 660s (170 gph each). I may up the size of one or more of the three if I am not getting the flow I want.

Some Notes:

1)Hardest part of the project so far was getting the stickers off the various pieces. Doing it over again I would have soaked all the pieces overnight.
2) Be sure to clean all pieces very well.
3) Buy pipe pieces long. Long pieces can be cut, but short pieces can not be stretched.
4) I used crazy clue to connect the pipes as it is nontoxic. Do not glue until everything has been fitted several times and you are sure of the design and measurements.
-Shane

WhitePine · Post by **WhitePine** » 24 Dec 2004, 05:36

Shane,

Looks good. I would probaly up the current flow. I have the two 802's on my river tank and I don't think it is enough. I am thinking of adding a third 802 to my system. Make sure you run it with water(no substrate) before you decide what size power head you need.

Good luck.

Post by **Shane** » 24 Dec 2004, 14:08

Justin,
I think I will have to up the flow.
The Marineland 1140 puts out 300 gph vs the 170 gph of the 660s I am using.

Aquaclear 802 says 400 gph with no venturi and 350 gph with venturi enabled.

-Shane

Post by **Barbie** » 24 Dec 2004, 17:41

Shane, go MaxiJet, rather than penguin. They have suction cups that actually suck and will hold things stable with no vibration and noise. I don't know that the flow rate is that much higher, but I by far prefer them here.

Barbie

Post by **Shane** » 24 Dec 2004, 21:29

Barbie,
I will take a look at the, but I am a pretty hardcore Marineland fan. A quick survey of the Fishroom yields:
9 Biowheel 3330s
7 Biowheel 170s
7 Powerhead 660s

There are probably more filters and powerheads still in boxes. I have only had one 170 die on me and it was the first one I ever bought. It must have ran over 8 years.
I also like the fact that all Marineland parts are interchangeable. The 660 powerhead is just the motor and impeller for the 170 power filter. If a power filter needs a new impeller, I can just cannibalize from a powerhead or vice versa. The powerhead sponges also connect directly to the 170 power filters. Thus if I buy the 1140 powerheads, parts can be interchanged with my Biowheels 330s. Remember, I can not just run to Petsmart like many folks if something goes wrong. I might have to wait weeks to get a replacement part.
I did make the mistake of buying two Rio pumps/powerheads. They both rattle and hum to the point of being useless. They were only purchased a year or so ago.
-Shane
PS I do not work for Marineland, but if you dear reader do, please send me free stuff! If you work for Rio, please do not send me anything.

Post by **Shane** » 01 Jan 2005, 00:39

Started the testing phase today. No leaks in the tank (it was moved from Colombia to Mexico) and the system seems to be working great. Now onto the best part...aquascaping.
-Shane

Post by **Barbie** » 01 Jan 2005, 01:53

Ooops, btw, MaxiJet is owned by Marineland, so you wouldn't have to change allegiances ;) You'll see what I mean if you try one!

Barbie

WhitePine · Post by **WhitePine** » 01 Jan 2005, 03:17

dick,

U probably don't need all the heads to run Venturi... that way U can up the flow a little more. I am adding a third 802 to my river tank as well. Can't wait to see the finished tank

Post by **Shane** » 02 Jan 2005, 04:56

Barbie,
Went with MaxiJet. They look like nice pumps. Also ordered a compact lighting system with the blue nightlites. Been wanting one of these setups for a while.
-Shane

Post by **Barbie** » 02 Jan 2005, 05:36

Awesome Shane! You'll see why I prefer them when you get them and start setting them up. I actually have a couple of the aqualights you wanted here at the house, but I figured you might have already ordered your picture tank lighting ;). I guess this means I have no excuse for why I don't have one set up and ready for pictures!

Barbie

mokmu · Post by **mokmu** » 02 Jan 2005, 14:23

Some thoughts, I know you guys are the experts. My experience with this system is the plumbing. Make sure you guys have another filter or two in there. Dirt and grime stick into the crevices and underneath the piping. I had a hard time cleaning the tank to my standards because of that. It also must've been the cats I kept. I had a solid panaque tank with lots of plants and bogwood when I kept the tank.

Regards,
Mike D.

Post by **Shane** » 02 Jan 2005, 14:53

Mike,
This type of set up and level of filtration is unsuitable for Panaque. In part because Panaque are never caught in fast waters and in part because (as you said) the filtration just could not handle the waste load. I plan to stock mine with Chaetostoma and other fast ater loricariids as well as a small school of fast water tetras. Overall bioload will be pretty light and will contain no woodeaters.
Here are a couple of the future inhabitants waiting for their new home.
-Shane

stina · Post by **stina** » 02 Jan 2005, 17:26

Shane,
I have noticed that your aquarium has glass "power-ups" on top ...
This is usual when you want to stop "belly efect" on your tank, but i have also noticed that you have glass power-up on every side of aquarium and that they are "glued" together... am i right??
Cuz if that is true, then you will have serius problem(tank crash) if some seizmic activity starts somewhere around your location...
regards
Vedran

Post by **Shane** » 02 Jan 2005, 18:07

Stina,
I am not sure what you are talking about. The tank is a 45 gallon (US) made by All Glass. Are you talking about the plastic around the top and bottom? All US made tanks have it. I have seen European and Asian tanks made without it, but as often as I move tanks around the plastic is nice protection. The plastic is not part of the "structural integrity" of the tank. It just keeps you from getting cut on the top of the tank and gives a wider lip to hand filters on. It can actually be pried off very easily if an aquarist wants to.
-Shane

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 02 Jan 2005, 19:06

I think Vedran is talking about stress bars running front to back across the top of the tank rather than the plastic facing but I could be wrong.

Jools

stina · Post by **stina** » 02 Jan 2005, 21:22

Yes, thank you Jools... i am having truoble finding right words...

Well, those stress bars, they seems to be made thru the hole tank, and that is not a good idea...
Mainly these stress bars are on the main sides of the tank, to stop "belly" efect, and with that to lower the chance of glass braking - right?
But in your tank, you have them on all sides and they are made from one piece... well that is a bad idea cuz this way you get firm structure that is NOT good on vibrations, and it is not "elastic" - i hope you understand me!?!
Try consulting with some of your's tank makers for better info cuz i SUCK at english and i am having dificultys explaining things...

-i have watched again your pics and maybe this will help!
On 5th picture you can see clearly what i am saying...
your stress bar is made from one piece, or maybe from 4 pieces but they are siliconed together, and this way your tank has more reduced elastic ability?? and it is more fragile than ever!
Trust me...

It would be wise to remove side stress bars and to short front stress bars for aprox 2cm from left and right sides..
Or you can just "cut out" the corners of your one-piece stress bar and that way you will have 4 stress bars AND elastic ability of your tank - the safest aquarium!

I hope i have helped you, on some way...
If you choose not to do it, please take this advice for future projects!
Kind regards
Vedran

Post by **Barbie** » 02 Jan 2005, 23:35

I don't know for sure what the problem would be with the single frame construction of supports on the top of the aquarium. ALL of the major manufacturers in the US use the same type of construction, just with varying degrees of supports. The seals are still going to flex between the glass frames a bit, but to be honest, glass just doesn't "give" that much and is going to shatter or leak if you put too much torsion on it anyway, IMO. With that said, my tanks had no casualties or problems riding out the 6.9 earthquake in Anchorage a few years ago.

Barbie

Post by **Shane** » 17 Jan 2005, 14:02

Back to the drawing board... I added the three Maxi Jet 1200s a few days ago and the tank's temp, with no heater and no light, has risen to a steady 80.8 F. This is pretty amazing when you consider room temp here is circa the high 60s-low 70s right now and the venturis are open adding lots of room temperature air. I'll have to shoot for a combination of Penguin 660s and Maxi Jet 1200s to get the temp down. Who would have known Maxi Jets put off that much heat?
-Shane

pleco_farmer · Post by **pleco_farmer** » 17 Jan 2005, 14:53

For hypancistrus/ancistrus, I use a single maxi-jet 1200/spray bar, and route the intake of an aqua-clear the length of the 20L tank. This is enough current for L46 and L34 to live happily and spawn. Without heater, temps were 78F in a 72F room, so a single maxi-jet 1200 was adding 6F to a 20 gallon tank. However, this is actually a benefit when keeping the tanks around 86F.

How was the turbulence with three pumps running? I'm finding that using 10" X 3/4" PVC with 1/8" holes drilled on 3/8" centers (24 holes across 9") produces a smoother, steady current. (Outlet size is 0.29 sq in, versus 0.44 sq in inlet) The output velocity of the water is dampened, taking it down closer to the speed at the input. There remains a bit of swirl, but this can be mitigated by moving the intakes a bit closer to the center. When you were running using the normal output of the power heads, was your tank length sufficient to absorb the turbulence? Before spray bars, most of my experiments ended up as big swirly messes.

In a four foot tank, I used a under gravel filter plate, similar to whitepine's setup, but with only half the plate, for the intake. With two spray bars, two maxi-jets drove a nice smooth current. With an aqua-clear 300 mounted on the output end, routing the intake to a sponge above the filter plate, it also remained surprisingly clean under the plate. Most waste coming through the gravel was blown right out again and picked up by the power filter.

(Before you ask, yes, I will try to shoot some photos...)

fishguyeric · Post by **fishguyeric** » 17 Jan 2005, 17:53

I know this is a little off topic, but I see you have what looks like L-187A as the chaetostoma sp. you are putting in there.

I bought 13 of these fish to try and breed them.
One died quickyl and the others are doing great.

However all of them are females.

Are males scarcer or more difficult to catch?

Is it common to get a whole shipment of females?

Post by **Barbie** » 17 Jan 2005, 18:56

D'oh, sorry Shane

It's never a problem for me, as I keep the warmer water species. They are recommended for use in reef tanks though, where people are trying to keep the temps down. That's strange that they'd do that much transferance!

I'll buy those MaxiJet's from you, if you'd like. You can deliver them when you come visit next time ;)

Barbie

Post by **Shane** » 17 Jan 2005, 20:02

For hypancistrus/ancistrus, I use a single maxi-jet 1200/spray bar, and route the intake of an aqua-clear the length of the 20L tank. This is enough current for L46 and L34 to live happily and spawn. Without heater, temps were 78F in a 72F room, so a single maxi-jet 1200 was adding 6F to a 20 gallon tank. However, this is actually a benefit when keeping the tanks around 86F

If you figure 6 F per pump per 20 gallons, than three pumps would explain why the 45 (minus a few gallons for decor) is running about 9 F above room temp. I'll probably replace one with a Penguin 660, add a fan to blow over the surface, and see where I stand. As Barbie said, I would be very happy if I were working with Orinoco, Negro, or Xingu loricariids. Unfortunately I am working with Andean hillstream spp.

Barbie, I am not THAT unhappy with the pumps.

Fishguyeric,
Actually I find that I typically catch more males than females when collecting Chaetostoma. Are you sure they are all females? Can you open a second topic on Chaetostoma IDs? I would be curious to see what sp. you have. L 187a (Aqualog softcover) is C. milesi. L 187 Aqualog softcover is C. pearsei. L 187 DATZ is C. pearsei (I took the photo) and L 187 Aqualog Hardcover shows to separate fishes as L 187. One is C. pearsei and the other a Colombian sp. The above fish is C. thomasi or L 187b. That said, L 187a and L 187b are not "real" L Numbers as they were never issued by DATZ.
-Shane

mallemalle · Post by **mallemalle** » 01 Feb 2005, 23:47

I belive that Aquariumsystems have an type of maxijet that can be placed outside of the water, that might help a bit.

Malle

Griparn · Post by **Griparn** » 04 Feb 2005, 20:40

Nice tank!

Do you have such setup in every tank?

Post by **Shane** » 04 Feb 2005, 21:56

No, just this one as I want to work with some piedmont spp.
-Shane

Durlänger · Post by **Durlänger** » 03 Apr 2005, 11:07

New picturse woulde by nice

WhitePine · Post by **WhitePine** » 04 Apr 2005, 03:53

Shane,

Maybe you should try using an external pump. I love my ehiem filters and I know that they also make a few hobby pumps that are suppose to be fairly quiet. Check them out...
Eheim hobby pumps

I have been thinking about changing out My river tank to this...

Cheers, Whitepine

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 04 Apr 2005, 21:37

Are they that much better? I know they have options galore. But the price.

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 11 Apr 2005, 15:39

Whitepine,
I ordered an Eheim powerhead. It was on sale. It's supposed to move in 3 directions. Since I didn't know about this kind of setup before laying down the substrate in the 75 gallon tank, I'm going through pumps like crazy. The duckweed is clogged the Rios. I burnt two out last week.

I'm going to try a few of the smaller Hydor Pico pumps, too. The Picos are supposed to have 1/2" connections. I'm still netting out the duckweed. It just grows back! That stuff grows in a bucket with no light.

Psy · Post by **Psy** » 16 Apr 2005, 16:33

Have you sorted the temperature issues?

Any recomendations on cool powerheads?