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I was told by an importer,(this is a guy who's been in the trenches collecting fish so I tend to trust what he, and his contacts say) that exporters are telling him that the L46 is now extinct in the wild...And that anything that's for sale is now is existing stock or tank-bred...Has anyone else heard anything that would agree with this or discount it??It would sure explain why most of the fish for sale are smaller fish<---tank-bred juvies..
David
p.s. yes I know this has been discussed before, but the point made was that they were going on an endangered list, not that they were extinct...

Nah, I doubt it. These exporters might be saying this so that they can raise prices, or 'pretend' to find more zebras later, and sell them for tons of money. Or, they might just be mistaken. I have not heard anything about zebra plecos being extinct. Their export was recently restricted, but they still exist in the wild (I believe).

That's what people were saying about the "restriction" last summer..."there's no restriction-it's just exporters and sellers wanting to raise the price"... ;)

The term "extinct" isn't one that is so lightly or so quickly applied.

There are many species of animals that have been shall we say, "not present" in it's native range for a decade or more prior to being labeled "extinct". Confirmation, repeated explorations, expeditions would be required to make this determination, not the word of a dealer/importer potentially trying to increase the value of his stocks.

The Ivory-Billed Woodpecker from the Southern U.S. is one good example of this, I believe the last confirmed sighting of this species was in the 1960s, it was only recently listed as "EXTINCT".
The Costa Rican Golden Toad I believe may be another example.

There has been alot of this lately. Particularly with this fish!

Well I know that everyone thinks that we retailers are totally profiteering from Zebras , but the truth is that they are very difficult to get from my point of view. We normally order them so that we always have 10 - 20 in stock. That tends to mean ( 25 or 26 in a box )that when we are down to 6 or so we order a box to keep the supply going.

Well this year ( from january) we ran out in Jan. and didn't manage to get any more until August (1/2 box ) and then another 12 in October , finally 26 in December.

In that time the price has risen ( for cost of fish only) to just over double what we were paying 12 months ago.

There are still suppliers listing "cheap" zebras on their lists , but they never arrive............ maybe just on the list to tempt an order !!!

I am not crying poverty, but no matter who you are you sweat a bit when a box of zebras is on its way to you, although they invariably arrive in very good condition.

As a matter of interest , he trecent import of 26 were as big a fish as I have ever received, so they are definitely wild fish, no breeder would wait that long before selling them and realising his profit.

Maybe they are being held back at source although I personally believe that they are a lot more difficult to find.

Just a view from a retailer .

pturley wrote: not the word of a fish-monger trying to increase the value of his stocks.

Thanks for the info, but I don't think an insulting comment directed at some un-named person you don't know was necessary, do you??
David

Yes, Hypancistrus zebra is a rare fish, but clearly there has been alot of "hype" surrounding this species.

I have watched the price of this fish (starting from the very first imports) go from $100 each import, down to $7.50 and now back to nearly $100. Imported fish are hard to find(they are not collecting/shipping as many as they once did) but at the same time, captive-bred fish are becoming much more available.

Perhaps my statement was a bit heavy-handed, but I believe only a bit because there is clearly a source for such rumors. These are perpetuated to create demand. A demand that at current far-outstrips supply, hence the higher price of late.

BTW: I edited my previous comment.
I am well aware that the average pet-store owner is certainly not "profiteering" from the sale of Zebra plecos! Most all the one's I know are struggling just to keep the doors open and the lights on!

To those pet store/fish store owner's that may have been offended, I sincerely apologize.

davidkozak wrote:

pturley wrote: not the word of a fish-monger trying to increase the value of his stocks.

Thanks for the info, but I don't think an insulting comment directed at some un-named person you don't know was necessary, do you??
David

I didn't read that as an insult. A fishmonger means a person selling fish, not someone enquiring about one.

Jools

Jools wrote:

davidkozak wrote:

pturley wrote: not the word of a fish-monger trying to increase the value of his stocks.

Thanks for the info, but I don't think an insulting comment directed at some un-named person you don't know was necessary, do you??
David

I didn't read that as an insult. A fishmonger means a person selling fish, not someone enquiring about one.

Jools

I think he mistook "fish-monger" for "fish-mongrel" heh.

Anyone then me that heard about the news from Brasil? In the beginning of last week or the week before they made a razzia in Manaus in all companys that export fishes and lots of people get arrested, it was on the news in Brasilian television. They was released after some days but all export of L-numbers are stopped from Manaus (temporary) but what my source told me they are still allowed to export from Belem and other regions except Manaus.
And L46 are very rare in Rio xingu compared for ten years ago when they counted several hundreds of them for each hundred square yards...they dont do that anymore.

I dont know exactly why they was arrested but it have something to do with exporting Loricariids.

Janne

Janne wrote:I dont know exactly why they was arrested but it have something to do with exporting Loricariids.

Janne

it had nothing to do with lorocaria's. and everything to do with the drugs in the bottom of the boxes.

ken

AFAIK the zebra pleco isn't extinct yet, but it may well soon be.

The reason is that Electronorte is building a series of hydroelectric dams in Rio Xingu, which will obliterate all or most of the rapids where the zebra pleco -as well as many other animals- lives.
It may or may not survive in tributaries.

This has been discussed before, e.g. in
http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3550
http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7157

(I've since found some more info, and environmental organizations claim the the dams will be neither needed nor profitable, but is solely a government-sponsored prestige-project to industrialize the interior of the Amazon. Funnily enough those environmental organizations don't seem to have noticed that species will be wiped out, but are solely worried about the displacement of indigenous people.)

However, as zebras are easy to breed I expect eastern europe and southeast asia to fill the demand with captive bred specimens. It's worse for the other species from Xingus rapids.

The talk of L046 being short in supply or banned from being exported or that only F1 specimens are allowed to be sold have been going round since March this year in Singapore. Yet, nearly all fish farms dealing in Loricariids are bringing in hundreds of them nearly every forthnightly since June this year. The only difference is that the price shot up from S$50-70 (in 2003) to S$100-S$168.

I still believe , through experience of the numbers offerred to us the importers and retailers, that they are very scarce. a Brazilian exporter that I use is usually a good source for Zebras. there are none available this week. if he had them why wouldn't he offer some even if they were at a very high price !!

It is possible that they are going to Singapore or Japan in preference to the UK or USA but I doubt that is the cause of the shortage,it seems more likely that they really are scarce.

I also think they are going to become even more scarce, regardless of all of the breeders working with them. They are not being produced in the numbers or growing fast enough to reduce the demand.

The important thing is to look after the stocks we have and hope that enough are bred to alleviate the situation soon.( both in the wild and in the home )

Just think if it's not true the exporters have read this, and the under laying panic and it has just given them an excuse to up the price 25% more
Who really knows why the slow down in supply is, you are all speculating and just adding to the rumors yourself.
it could be any number of reasons, from poor weather for weeks preventing collection, which damaged access to the collection areas for even longer to the tightening of some local laws.
Lets not hit the panic button just yet and as Mike_Noren typed

However, as zebras are easy to breed I expect eastern europe and southeast asia to fill the demand with captive bred specimens

problem solved before it even started !
Have a very Merry Christmas and a safe New Year Fellas and lets hope you can get those Zeb's pumping for 2005

In the beginning of this year they decide to put a quota on L46 and that was reached for two weeks ago, and now all exporting of L46 from Brasil is stopped...I dont know when they will be allowed to re-establish exporting of this species. They did this just because they are starting to be very rare in Rio xingu and not for the reason of the new hydroelectric dams that will be build in Rio Xingu of Electronorte...but I agree with Mike in all the others problem this will bring to the river and the animals in this area.

Janne