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I have always been lead to believe that the following pictures of my catfish make it a Hypostomus plecostomus.

Its name is Bruno, and is 12" long and nearly 11 years old.

How old do these catfish live for ?

Pictures can be found in my Tropical Fish Album on the following link:
http://community.webshots.com/user/westyuk

Bruno is not a <i>Hypostomus</i>, it's a <i>Liposarcus pardalis</i>.

Hi! Looks like a liposarcus pardalis, just like my Hoovie!

http://www.boomspeed.com/rickeybird/hoov1.jpg

I've been told they live a long time... one source even said 20 years...!!?? Hoovie's about 7-8 years old, I think.

There's a lot of good info on these fish here... my posts over the last week or so have all concerned this fish, and I received a lot of good advice.

Good luck!

Wow - Thanks !

It certainly is a Liposarcus pardalis I have looked at the Cat-eLog and the pics are just the same.

Well done on rescuing hoov, Gail. I hope it brings you years of fun.

Two other questions :
How do you tell if its a Boy or Girl (reckon this is pretty hard!)
How long can they grow to, if the size of your tank didn't restrict growth.

westy wrote:
How old do these catfish live for ?

Since you now know what he is, for the second part of your question, I know one that's 22 years old! He doesn't move around much, and the owner finds he eats very little.

erm sorry but u keep a 12'' fish in a 55 litre tank? The tank should be at least 4 times the size of the fish...so were talking about a 300 litre tank being the minimun...

The pleco was in a 55 litre tank, but is now in a 130litre one.

Not sure where you have come to the conclusion that it needs to be in a tank 4 times the size of the fish. Then have calculated the tank to be at 300 litres

If the tank was 4 times the size of the fish, for example : 4ft x 1.25ft x 1.25ft that equals 175litres !!!!

erm i was talking about a 120x50x50 tank in which the fish really cant turn properly if you have any deco...in germany we have laws against keeping too big fish in too small tanks

so what is ur largest fish and what size tank is it in. also how many fish do u have in this tank.
paul

Hmmm, I think you must be trying to say that the smallest edge needs to be x2 the size of largest fish. So 12" fish needs 24" tank to turn.

Fair point, but I have trained my catfish to bend !

Also he can squeeze into a small flowerpot to hide....he thinks I can't see him, but I know hes there.

westy wrote:Hmmm, I think you must be trying to say that the smallest edge needs to be x2 the size of largest fish. So 12" fish needs 24" tank to turn.
Fair point, but I have trained my catfish to bend !
Also he can squeeze into a small flowerpot to hide....he thinks I can't see him, but I know hes there.

Unfortunately being in a position where I frequently get asked to rehouse overgrown Liposarcus, I have seen a significant number where the enforced bend actually becomes permanent. The only thing left then is euthanasia. I have an 18" fish of the same species as yours at work that was in a very similar situation, it now has the rear third of it's body bent out at a 45 degree angle, and I haven't the heart to get our vet to put it to sleep. I really should as it may be carrying other hidden nasties (having been housed in an aquarium too small for it, it is likely that it has been subjected to varying water quality and so could be carrying latent bacterial infections), but it wasn't the fault of the fish that it ended up that way.
I have to agree with Caol_ila when he suggests 300 litres as minimum for a fish of this size. Even if you use the rule of the shortest side should be twice the length of the fish, and the longest side at least four times, if you scale it down it would be like keeping a two inch Corydoras in an aquarium 8 " by 4" by 4", and if you saw that you would think it cramped.
Given the opportunity, big Plecs are capable of strong active swimming (that's why they have those superb big tails), and when you have seen them able to do this it is difficult to picture them in an environment where this is denied them.

@doitsu aka paul r u asking me? My biggest fish is 17 cm in a 50x50x50 cube ill get it to a bigger tank when it reaches the 20 cm. In my 120 cm tank the biggest fish is a 16 cm L77.

I am a Liposarcus owner myself, and feel the same as coelacanth. My L. multiradiatus is only a bit bigger than westy's and about the same age, but I keep him in a 580 litres tank which is 2 metres long and 58 cm wide. He is a very active swimmer, likes to swim the whole "pool length" in the midwater, and does that in daylight too, a lot. He is not a hider at all, and when the rest of my pl*cos move so that they always have their mouth attached to something (substrate, plants, wood, rocks... you know) he clearly enjoys these laps around the tank in the open water. He's the king of the tank and looks noble drifting slowly above his kingdom

A rough rule I've heard for tank sizes is that the tank should be the fish's adult length ten times in litres. So a 30 cm fish needs at least 300 litres tank. That, of course, is a very rough rule and doesn't apply to very large fish or active swimmers.

Not only is the westy's pl*co in too small tank but also the clown loaches, I'm afraid.

Oh dear !

Looks like my new tank is still to small, I worked out that at 90 x 30 X 30cm thats 81litres, and not 130 as worked out previously.

The L.Pardalis seems much happier in this larger tank, and so do the Clown loaches.

I have a solution that may work, I also own a 10,000 Koi Pond.
I've have seen L.Pardalis at a LFS being kept in with Coldwater fishes and wondered whether it would be feasible to relocate him in my outdoor pond ?

Does anyone know what the minimum temperature that these catfish require ?

Westy,
81 litres is still far too small for a big common pl*co. I'm sure he and the clowns are happier now the tank is bigger, but it's still not enough.

I'm afraid it wouldn't do better in the outdoors pond, I believe the temperature should be above 20° C for these cats.

westy,

I know how the expense of a new tank can be daunting, especially when you know that you really must for the wellbeing of you beloved fish. One thing you may want to consider, that I have seen done, never done myself, but have considered. What about a custom built tank? Most tanks you see sold in stores are rectangular, so no matter what, it's difficult to find one that has sufficiant width, yet not too long for you to handle. You could custom build a more square tank. There is a good bit of expense for the glass, but in my opinion could be well worth it to have tank dimensions suiatble for you. So insteand of buying a 6' x 2' tank, you could build one maybe 3' x 3' or 4' x4 '. This would give you pleco LOTS of room to manuver, and could be quite attractive on a nice custom stand! That's something I'm planning on doing when I build my house. I want to make a custom 4' x4 ' tank on a low stand built into my bookshelf on runners.

Just a though, and thinking out loud

Hi Westy!

I don't think the Koi pond is a good idea. A cold snap in winter would leave the warmest part of your pond at a meagre 4* C and that's assuming it's quite deep. Even in the summer months your pond will only attain a temperature of approximately 18 to 20 degrees at most and even this will fluctuate from day to day and even over night (again depending on the depth/surface area/shading). I read a post by someone called Easy on this group who has pl*cos in her Koi pond in the Philippines... envy! Oh! For a warmer climate!

Another way to increase your volume on the cheap is to make your tank taller and wider. If the overall length of the tank remains the same you can use your existing hood and bridge the gap at the back with some plastic/glass. Just make sure your joists are strong! The extra volume will require extra filtration and heating though $$$

Guy

Guys and gals,

Let's keep things in perspective. Yes, bigger is better when it comes to tanks housing large fish. The guidelines presented are valid approximations, though undoubtedly the fish would be even happier in a big tropical pond and happiest in their native habitat.

The unpleasant reality is that most L. pardalis die a couple of months after they're brought home from the pet store. By way of further perspective, more cats and dogs are euthanized in Western countries every year than are adopted (and then we give the Koreans and Chinese a hard time about eating dogs and cats instead of just killing them and tossing the carcasses in a landfill like we do!).

If anything deserves to be criticized, it is not well-meaning but possibly uninformed individuals but the values of our society, which treat animals as mere objects to be used and thrown away when we're done with them. More than a century of pious laws against animal cruelty have done little to change these fundamental attitudes. We are ALL responsible. Why behold the mote in our brother's eye, but consider not the beam that is in our own?

Dinyar

Thanks for all the replies.

The post about the Philipines owber who keeps L.Pardilis in a pond sounds interesting.
My Koi benenfit from having a heated environment, the temp is constantly maintained and never drops below 15oC.

I have read that they grow to a max of 30cm, but have seen a picture of one that looks much bigger. If it were to be placed in my 10000 litre pond what length could be attained ?

I have the same fish, here is a pic, sorry the file is a bit big but not the picture, this was taken about 2 years ago and he is now a good 18 inches long or 45 cm (Sorry im from the U.S.)
He is in a 55 gallon tank or 208 liters with no decorations as he is too big or is that. He wil be moved to a 125 gallon or 473 liters very soon.


Very nice fish, very friendly, loves for to me pet his snout.
Connie

coelacanth wrote: Given the opportunity, big Plecs are capable of strong active swimming (that's why they have those superb big tails),

I thought that Plecs would need to be strong swimmers just to hold their own against strong currents?

Well, they have that sucker mouth they can use to attach themselves to the substrate.

That just supports what I meant. They are adapted to stay on or close to the substrate and would be unlikely to swim actively in the water column. If they let go with their mouth, they would need strong propulsion just to prevent being blown downstream. To misquote the Red Queen, "Swim as hard as they could just to stay in the same place".