HELP with tigrinus

linksys · Post by **linksys** » 07 Jul 2004, 21:10

Hey Everyone,

Almost three weeks ago, I picked up a 5" tigrinus and placed him in a divided 29 gal tank (jurense on the other side) for a temporary growout tank. I started him off on live blackworms and was able to switch him over onto frozen shrimps and chicken after a few days. Since then, I have been feeding him heavily (2-3 times a day) with mostly frozen shimrps and the chicken.

However, this past Sun, the tig ate and then threw up his first meal and since has refused to take any more food.

I've checked the water parameters and they are perfect (no ammonia, no nitrite). My ph has always been on the high side straight out of the tap at 7.8 and I have always maintained this in all my tanks. Hmm...besides that, I do a 20% water change every 3-4 days to keep nitrates down.

Over the past few days, I have noticed that the tig had been breathing more rapidly than normal with his mouth openning and closing continoulsy. He also did swim up near the surface more than usual. I have since added an extra airstone and he no longer swims near the surface as much.

Otherwise, I just have no clue as to what the problems is. Someone suggested gill flukes. However, I've only noticed him scratch a few times and his gills are not noticeably inflamed. Maybe some type of parasite/worms? Though I have not fed him any feeders (and the person I bought him from had him feeding on blackworms), he was imported from peru and could have come in with it. If so, are there any medications that is "catfish safe" and wont hurt/kill my tig. I am not certain on what the problem is and so I do not want to use anything strong that may potentially hurt him.

Hmm.....I am just totallly lost and confused as to what I should do next!!! I understand small tigs should not fast and mine is going on its fourth day of not eating!! I would REALLY appericiate any help/advise/opinions!!

Thanks everyone!!

velocity · Post by **velocity** » 08 Jul 2004, 00:56

you should look into a larger tank.

linksys · Post by **linksys** » 08 Jul 2004, 01:17

velocity,

He'll be going into a 180 once he is big enough.

By the way, how far along are u on the 2,000 gallon south american pond in construction?

Do u have any pics?

S. Allen · Post by **S. Allen** » 08 Jul 2004, 02:04

linksys, you can't own a tigrinus that's small enough to be ok in half a 29 gallon, they don't come that small. smallest I've seen is like 4 inches, perhaps down to 3 but... they need room to move about. Yours is at 5 inches and really needs like, a 55 minimum in my opinion.

linksys · Post by **linksys** » 08 Jul 2004, 05:59

S. Allen,

First off, awesome collection of beautiful plecos, rays and catfish (just checked out ur website)!!

OH....and how big is ur tig? Is he housed in ur 90 gal tank? What are the standard meaurments for a 90 gal tank? When do u plan on upgrading? And finally, what rate of growth have u seen in the time u have had him?

My initial plans were to power feed and get him to a foot as quickly as possible. This would in turn allow me to move him into my 180. However, while I have found my jurense cat to grow VERY quickly (almost 2 inches in the last month), the tig's growth rate has been significantly slower.
Thus, I now find myself in a position where I feel my 5" tig will be fine in my 29 gal tank (30x12x18) for the next few months. On the other hand, if all of a sudden the tig goes through a termendous growth spurt, I will simply put in a divider in my 180 and continue to grow him out in it. Overall, I thnk I clearly have options and will be able to accomadate my fish without a prob.

Now back to my initial post....

Anyone experience anything similar and would be able to lend some helpful advise/tips/opinions?
I just got back from my local fish store and they advised me to not add any meds and monitor for the next few days.

However, they also gave me a medication that is supposed to cure gill flukes, fish lice, anchor worms, and leeches. I was told if I were to half dose, it would be safe to use on my tig. It is made by Aquarium Products and called Life Bearer
Active ingredients are as follows:

0.0-dimethyl, 1-hydroxy, 2-trichloromethyl phosphonate
Anyone familiar with any of the above? The guy says its catfish safe if half dosed, but I still wanted to run it by u guys here.

I just added some ghost shirmps and guppies into the tank to try and stimulate him to chase and feed. I plan on monitoring over the next few days and add the med if things dont improve.

hmm.....am I missing anything?

Thanks again everyone!

Taratron · Post by **Taratron** » 08 Jul 2004, 06:16

Yes, you are.

Your tig doesn't need medications. Or different food. He needs a larger tank pronto, because the one you're keeping him in will end up as his crypt very fast.

You cannot powerfeed any fish to a foot in length in a tank only barely twice that.

andregurov · Post by **andregurov** » 09 Jul 2004, 02:24

Perhaps I'm missing something ... you planned on keeping the tigrinus in a 29 gallon tank UNTIL he got bigger? Why not just start him in the 180 gallon from the beginning. He'd certainly grow faster in the 180 and you wouldn't have to worry quite as much about killing a beautiful, expensive fish due to rapidly degraded water conditions. I assume your 29 gets large (100% +) water changes per week ... otherwise the tigrinus wouldn't be growing that fast in it anyways, right?
Preaching aside:
Got a redox meter handy? You said your tigrinus was respiring heavily - did you count how many respirations per minute (it sounds stupid, but it is a damn easy way to get a good idea of how your fish is doing in only 1 minute) ... it may be worth your while to check it several times a day. Late advice for you (sorry - better late than never): keeping a log with entries for feeding, water conditions, and fish behavior often allow you to discern problem AND cause quickly. Back to the useful advice, though; if your tigrinus was respiring a bit too quickly for comfort and an airstone helped, that is a bad tank husbandry sign (test kits be damned! they don't work that well anyway).
A young tigrinus, or pretty much any young predatory catfish (natch), is going to have a phenomenal metabolic rate. 29 gallons is too small a volume of water to ease my concerns or his stress. Just move him now and let him thank you sooner than later.

S. Allen · Post by **S. Allen** » 09 Jul 2004, 04:12

He is now in the 14 to 16 inch range. As to the upgrade it was scheduled some months ago but was postponed due to a major layoff at my place of employment, leaving me jobless for 2 months and landing me finally in a job where I make substantially less. As to the specific date of an upgrade, at this point it is unknown. I may end up selling off my larger fish, I had to sell some already to make ends meet. Standard mesuarments are 48x18x24.

Allan · Post by **Allan** » 09 Jul 2004, 10:29

I've checked the water parameters and they are perfect (no ammonia, no nitrite).

Did You meassure Nitrates aswell?

- 20% waterchange twice a week with a large predatory fish in a smaller tank is not that much when you feed it fishy meals, so to keep those low values, you must also have some extreme filtering.

Maybe look into your testkid or try some other teststrips or something, I think you might have a nitrate/nitrite problem, so just to be sure do a doubblecheck.

magnum4 · Post by **magnum4** » 10 Jul 2004, 00:57

chicken after a few days

IMO chicken is not to be considered a good meal for any fish.

From what i've read so far the facts are. tank is too small, water changes not often enough or not enough changed each time plus force feeding large amounts of food.

Sound to me as if the triginus is eating so much that it needs to stop a breath heavy to help digest its meal. Chicken will not digest easy and there is not enough room in the tank to swim round and force O2 over the gills. the rest of the O2 in the tank is being used by the filter bacteria trying to break down the liquid ammonia being produced by a jurense and a tigrinus both in the same 29gallon tank.

Medication now will only knock back your filter system and take more O2 away from you fish. could also kill him straigt off if you ask me.

How to fix the problem: get each fish it's own tank or move to larger tank with large filter systems and oxygen supply.