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Undescribed Hoplo-species F1's are spawning

Posted: 03 Jan 2003, 23:16
by Sid Guppy
Right at this very moment I can view breedingtank nr 6 wich currently houses my breeding pair Ancistrus temminki, some guppys and their young and five, what we're used to call; "Hoplosternum shirui" (how we got that name comes later)
The two males each now have a bubblenest under patches of styrofoam, with eggs from any of the three females. these five are the last of the remaining offspring we have (me and a friend share fish); the wildcaught parents are long gone.

So are their over one 100 or so siblings; twenty died in a bad Dutch LFS (the only one who would take catfish, Dutch LFS being completely allergic to anything non-pleco, or non-cory), the remaining, minus five, were taken to the UK, years ago, by people visiting Holland. Those people had a strong connection with the, now gone but then alive and kicking; British Catfish Association. Whatever happened to those people or the 80 or so young Hoplo's is unknown to me. my best riend kept the remaining five in a catfishcommunity-tank ever since. They started breeding attempts in early October, but he hasn't got place for breedingtanks; so now they reside at my place for the time being.

The catfish in question looks a wee bit like a miniaturized Hoplosternum littorale (8-9 cm), but even more like someone managed to crossbreed Dianema longibarbis with Lepthoplosternum pectorale!
unlike the littorale, this species rarely digs. They have a more plump shape and a very conspicious fine speckle-pattern on the whole of the body INCLUDING ALL FINS. The whiskers are thin and short, not long and thick like H littorale. Also; male and female are equal in size. the fins are grey, spotted, but transparent as well; thus different from H littorale. The males' pectorals are longer, but almost straight, without curls or orange coloration. The eyes are small like pectorale's, not big like Dianema's. The points of the tailfin are blunt, unlike the tailfin of H littorale. Actually the shape of the tailfin resembles the tailfin of a common goldfish or one of those tropical Barbus-species more than the tailfin of either Dianema or H littorale. It is a secretive, peaceful fish, that likes to rest on wood or plants; they prefer this to resting on the sand. They're VERY nocturnal, the spawning always takes place in the dark of night, although I've spawned the parents many times (only once managed to raise the young, hence the F1's) I've never caught them in the act.

the name Shirui: this name is mentioned as "a species that was once considered synonym with littorale, but now considered valid" (source Dr Warren E Burgess; Atlas of Freshwater and Marine Catfishes p332)
unfortunately there's no picture, but this name was the most likely we encountered years ago; when trying to indentify this rare fish.

Pics will be posted soon, as soon as I can surprise them (quality will be a lucky shot...)
but any info from someone who:
-was in Beek en Donk (Netherlands) years ago, at the "Tropifish" firm (ex/importer who sadly left the business) which was Ton kooijmans'.
-was one of the connections of the BCA back then, and/or had -like us back then- ties with Dr Isaac Isbrucker or Dr Mees
-simply knows wich species this is (!)
-or-even better- managed to get some of my former Hoplo's and still has them!
All feedback greatly appreciated
SG :mrgreen:

Posted: 04 Jan 2003, 01:51
by smilingSyno
Congratulations! That sound exciting! Do you have babies yet? Can't wait to see some pics. I have four hoplos (well, your common household hoplo, about 6 inches and plain brown all over) and I love them. They're great fish. Good luck with the young!

Posted: 04 Jan 2003, 15:15
by Sid Guppy
Just got out the nests; the first nest is hatching!
these eggs were laid on Dec 31. The other nest will probably hatch in two days, since that one was made on jan 2.
Pa Hoplo #1 wasn't happy when I took his nest, he attacked me, but there were already some empty eggshells, and I couldn't take the risk of losing this batch.
Now the hard part starts; keeping those tiny tadpoles alive long enough to make them eat babybrine; I just cleaned and geared the hatching thingy.

Posted: 04 Jan 2003, 15:37
by Silurus
Do you have a copy of Roberto's revision of <i>Hoplosternum</i> (which might probably help you identify your fish)? If not, I can get a copy out to you.
<i>Hoplosternum shirui</i> is considered a junior synonym of <i>H. littorale</i> in this revision. However, I can probably scan the illustration of <i>H. shirui</i> from the original description and send it to you to compare against your fish, if you like.

Heok Hee

Posted: 04 Jan 2003, 15:40
by Sid Guppy
Please do so; it'll help anyway, and I'm definitely interested!
tanx
SG

Posted: 04 Jan 2003, 15:43
by Silurus
Erm, I'll need a snail mail address to send the paper to. Email me (or send me a private message) with your info.

Heok Hee

Posted: 04 Jan 2003, 15:58
by Sid Guppy
What is "snail mail" ??
you can have my E-mailaddress: synodontis@dolfijn.nl
if that one doesn't work, maybe this one will: sidguppy@dolfijn.nl
see ya SG

Posted: 04 Jan 2003, 16:04
by Jools
Firstly, well done! I would value some pics of the breeding set-up and nests etc, as well as shots of the undersides of the male and female fish. These are great cats but are just "out of fashion" at the moment.

I spent a lot of time researching this and releated genera in 2000 when i brought some cool Megalechis back from Peru. Look forward t seeing the pics and trying to help.


Jools

Posted: 04 Jan 2003, 16:05
by Jools
SG_Eurystomus wrote:What is "snail mail" ??
This is your home postal address that letters are delivered to by a real postman. :)

Jools

Posted: 04 Jan 2003, 16:10
by Silurus
That's your mailing address that I can send a copy of the revision to (snail=postal mail, as opposed to email). I can send you a scan of the picture over email, but it would be too much hassle for the revision (20+ pages and too big to send over email).

Heok Hee

Posted: 06 Jan 2003, 00:23
by Sid Guppy
I'll mail you my address soon

Today I managed to film on VHS the hatching of the eggs; I've got about an hour and a half of razorsharp footage; baby Hoplo's; swimming, rolling in the eggshell and hatching. Just watched it on my old, big TV and it definitely looks cool.
very scientific :P
GrabbeeUSB videograb failed on me twice; anybody got any ideas how to digitalize this stuff? It would do great on the net, or sample pics from, but I haven't got a clue where to start and I'm not THAT handy with either soft- or hardware. (if the ol' pc cooperates, wich isn't a guarantee at all!)

btw Now I also got footage from Phyllonemus, Synodontis "polli II", baby bristlenoses and Synodontis petricola dwarf. Just swimming and eating, mind.
This cam is one catchy habit :lol:

Posted: 06 Jan 2003, 00:36
by Pectorale
Congratulations and thx :D , just saw the raw footage and it looks great. I decided to register on Planet Catfish, might acually learn something. Those baby Hoplo's are cute don't you think?

Posted: 06 Jan 2003, 15:05
by Silurus
Hi SG,

I checked Roberto's revision and it seems that what you have is <i>Hoplosternum punctatum</i> Meek & Hildebrand, 1916. The photo of the specimen shows the color pattern as you describe, and it is further stated that this is the smallest species of <i>Hoplosternum</i>.
Hope this helps.

Heok Hee

Posted: 06 Jan 2003, 15:17
by Jools
@SG,

Is any of this online? PM or email me if you need help with the techie stuff.

Jools

Posted: 07 Jan 2003, 14:16
by Sid Guppy
Nothing of it is online yet; that's exactly the problem.
The movie is now on a VHStape, and I don't know how to get it on the computer (step #1 I don't know)
next difficulty is getting it from the computer on the internet (step #2 I haven't got a clue)

btw we all have to be patient, I had a MAJOR screw-up with my pc, right now I have to format the whole 80GIG and start from scrap! something went horribly wrong when trying to install W2000....
Good thing I've got all my articles, pics and movies on a back up drive wich is a separate 20GIG harddisc! (lesson I learned; I had a headcrash 8 months ago without backups...)
I'm typing now on one of the school pc's, so I can keep you posted, but taking digital pics ("my" cam is a digicam from school) or digital footage won't be possible until I have fixed the whole system (or rather, until my helpful friend, who DOES know his stuff has etc etc)

Posted: 16 Jan 2003, 18:25
by Sid Guppy
I've got an update, but it's no good news; the baby-Hops are dropping like flies....
first off, a week ago all the tanks had a bout of ichthyophorus (itch/white spot).
I had to dose, it probably hiked with a batch of young Syno polli, and spread from there.
No fish were lost AFAIK, maybe some of the smallest baby-bristles, but I'm not sure. They were the ones wich suffered the most, but also the ones wich healed pretty fast and now they're OK, like the other fish. Only the Tangtank was unaffected.
Unfortunately, despite care with hand-washing etc; it managed to creep in the Fry tank.
I was forced to do a bad choice; don't use medication and loose all fry; period.
Or use medication and maybe loose the fry to medical poisoning. I used it.
It seemed to go fine, but I started to see smaller numbers.
Next I took care to avoid the "fungus" things on the bottom (see the cory-breedingthreads) with Ramshornsnails, but those multiplyed really good. Did some Ramshorns ate fry??
Then one day, I noticed the pump on the Artemia-bottle didn't work, and I had to feed them with micro-worms, because the babybrine was wasted.
They didn't like those at all, and the polluting medium probably didn't do good, so I stepped up the waterchanges, carefully. And added a small nylon with carbon to clear up the medication and perhaps the medium as well.
But the last three days they're dropping like flies, and I'm out of my wits what to do next. Luckily the parents are in great shape, but don't seem to be in the mood for another spawn. End of season??
I've got quite a bit of VHS footage, if I ever manage to put it on the pc, I'll post it here; but I'm no PCgeek by any stretch of imagination, and gimmicks like this are high-tech fooling around with audio-equipment to me...

Posted: 14 Feb 2003, 01:36
by SirHelm
SG were you able to get your stuff digitized yet? If not try this

get a capture card or a external device (i.e dazzle digital capture),

Check out ULEAD's website http://www.ulead.com. they have tons of software. There is even some trial software you can check out.

I currently have a non digital sony handicam with night shot that I use to grab video of my cats. I use the dazzle digital 50 external capture device and have been using the ulead trial software.

Check out my small vids at http://www.mickenator.com.

Hope this helps

SH