Neoarius graeffei (?)

[Xeno]

Hey,
I recently purchased a Neoarius which is currently in a quarantine tank.
It was supposed to be 3in long but is over 8in.
It was supposed to eat bloodworms but only eats smelt.
So the info the importer gave me were not correct and because of this I just want to make sure the species id was right at least.

[aquaholic]

Neoarius graeffei will get to 80cm despite what literature says. Becoming quite wide and solid (heavy) fish. They will eat almost anything. The mouth gape is a good indication. They prefer to school so get at least another 3 or 4 (and a much bigger tank or pond). Squeak - grunt when out of water.

[Xeno]

Hey,
There were two specimen that had been imported.
I bought one and a friend got the other one but managed to kill it immediately by not correctly introducing it to his tank after shipping.
So my specimen currently is the only one I know of being kept in Germany.
How come all sources state a max. size of 24in with around 20in being the common size?
Are there any documented cases of fish the size you mentioned?
If yes are those only world record specimen that were caught in the wild?
It could be the same as with Polypterus.
Let's take P. congicus for example.
They are able to reach around 90cm in the wild but even if you get a young wild caught specimen they grow to around 60cm (possibly even smaller if starved after being caught and sold).

[aquaholic]

I've no idea why data bases copy each other but it's a good wake up call not to believe everything you read including some well respected text books.

If you search for forktail catfish or salmontail catfish in Australia you should find plenty of examples of larger fish. I've got 2 myself that I've kept 20 ish years that are 80cm which the size I indicated to you. Unfortunately with human population growth and over fishing pressures, larger wild fish become harder and harder to catch but still available occasionally especially the further north of Australia & PNG you go. (warmer temperatures all year and less inhabited). There are several similar species in those regions that get even bigger though. I've got some midgley that are over a meter.

Why does it matter what size the literature says? There is not much difference to keeping a 60cm fish than an 80cm fish .. especially as you should keep these in groups Also many captive fish get much larger than wild caught.

[aquaholic]

https://www.australiangeographic.com.au ... ting-mice/

Bit of interesting trivia for you.

[Bas Pels]

Why does it matter what size the literature says? There is not much difference to keeping a 60cm fish than an 80cm fish .. especially as you should keep these in groups Also many captive fish get much larger than wild caught.

While I do agree that 60 or 80 cm does noet matter much- the fish is far too big for any tank resembling a normal tank, I wonder whehter fish in captivity all grow bigger than in nature

Obviously, the food is more plentyfull and they will not be eaten. But before they get into the tank, there is a pariod of starvation, which many species don't recover from. Furhter the food is quite often not approriate. Try, for instance, feeding plancton. Or feeding aufwuchs properly.

Sometimes, such as with aufwuchs easters, they grow too big indeed, but quite often the fish survive, but not more than that. However, I think in this case feeding them will not be that complicated.

[Xeno]

Hey,
even this site states a max size of 60cm.
What a bummer!
I guess I'll sell it to someone with an indoor pond or a giant tank then.
There's quite a difference between 60cm and 80cm when it comes to tank mates .
I was expecting to house a catfish similar size to a tigrinum not a red tail catfish so yea I won't keep it.
I'll continue and finish quarantine before rehoming it though.

[Jools]

What this site states is a Standard Length of 60cm.

The thing about sizes of fishes is that we (humans) are really bad at estimating them and folks don't tend to work with data. I say this from decades of discussion on this in this forum - Pterygoplichthys is a good example.

What's really helpful is a picture with a tape measure. There are quite a few in the cat-elog. Any chance of one here? Would be really interesting.

Jools

[Xeno]

Hey,
This might not fit the topic 100% but the question is somehow connected to this situation.
So I am looking for a catfish for my 180x80cm bichir tank.
A few minutes an importer contacted me and asked if I'd be interested in Hemiarius stormii.
So the info on the internet states a max size of 40-50cm.
Is this correct or do they get larger as well?

[aquaholic]

A tigrinum catfish is considerably more sensitive with water quality and aquarium demands than a RTC and in my opinion will require a bigger tank than a RTC. Not just theoretical, that's been my experience.

What is a "normal size" tank? The technology and availability in glass and adhesives continues to improve each year. Even silicone has vastly improved but PU (polyurethane) has transformed aquaria. Glass sheets up to 12m long - 4m wide, acrylic even bigger. The size of larger home fish tanks is already beyond the size of public aquarium tanks 30 years ago.

What about hoplosternum catfish with bichir? Very active interesting fish.

[Xeno]

Hey,
the average tank size here is around 120cm but yea there are some people having big tanks and indoor ponds as well although it's not that many due to the high costs to run a tank like that.
Luckily I am well connected within the hobby and it should not be an issue to rehome the Neoarius.

I've kept Megalechis thoracata before the albino ones were nice but even those would end up as food.
Bigger species such as Hoplosternum littorale are not available here.
Finding tank mates for this setup is quite challenging because it's a fully planted tank so no digging species or species that eat the slimecoat of bichirs (so alot of Synodontis won't work as well) are possible.

Something around the 40cm mark would be perfect.
Preferably not an active species, which does not have a slender body shape and feasts on frozen fish.
Sadly 180x80 is the maximum size I can go in that room without having to tear down any other of my 13 tanks.

But to be honest I do not "need" a predatory catfish in there it just would've been neat but I guess I'll stick to the current stocking, maybe switch out some of my bichirs as they grow or add my Lepidosiren paradoxa to the tank.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RSt1A4Lh4E&t=1s

[Viktor Jarikov]

Beautiful tanks and great channel, Xeno, work of love. Nice thread too, useful info.

I must be less responsible and more selfish than you because I'd probably choose to test and see how big the Neoarius would really grow and how fast. I am an adventurer and experimentalist, I guess.

There have been one or two recent mentions / threads on H. stormii on the MFK. I don't remember how big they are reputed to grow. If memory serves, Wesley Wong of Rare Fish aka fugupuff has several adults in his tank but he almost never comes to the MFK, you can email him though.

Planet Catfish cites length as SL, that is without the tail fin, which means the length of N. graeffei tip to tip may be around 75cm.

[aquaholic]

Unfortunately it's a fact of life when fish get too big for your tanks. You can either get rid of the fish or get bigger tank(s). If you only have one of this fish, it will mostly stay in one of the back top corners of your tank where it can see its own reflection (from 2 adjacent glass sheets).

There are lots of fish species not available to every fish keeper regardless of their location but similarly there are lots of fish species that are available too! Why don't you see what's available in your rivers & lakes?

This interest in N. graffiti has prompted me to get some more as mine are getting quite old. They are probably the most abundant catfish in my region and tend to be dull coloured without fancy finnage so looked down on, used as crabpot baits and a nuisance bycatch. Fairly easy to hatch from eggs (mouth brooder) as I did many years ago but even easier to obtain with a simple hand line. Throwing bread out usually brings on a surface feeding frenzy.

[Viktor Jarikov]

If you only have one of this fish, it will mostly stay in one of the back top corners of your tank where it can see its own reflection (from 2 adjacent glass sheets).

You just blew me away with this revelation! I never thought about this cause as to why some fish prefer some parts of tanks to others.