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I'm goign to set up a rio negro biotope (i.e. really black acidic river water set up)
and i plan to buy a group of adult butterfly plecos and hopefully breed them
1. All the butterfly plecs are of mature size, and i can definitely see the males as they have exaggerated odontes and are really "spikey" heh....but does that mean that the females have less? Or are there more methods of sexing them? To my understanding males should be bigger and have wider heads...assuming all are of adult size...and how much of each sex should i get? (3 females 2 males?)
2. Do they need alot of space to breed? Tank is 40 gallons long (40 inches X 18 wide i think...and pretty shallow)....are my tank dimensions OK for these guys? I'm running 600+ gallons/hour of flow
4. Also i'm putting in sand/river pebble substrate, and ALOT of driftwood...PVC pipe cave, and a couple of rock caves....is this ok?
thank you for your response!!!!!

sorry for the misleading information
i am told that L052 (zonancistrus sp.) are from the rio orinoco while the zonancistrus pulcher are from the rio Negro is there much difference between these two locations?
while both species are labelled as "butterfly plecos" and both species are of the same genus i assumed they were collected frmo the same place

OK i've been reading that whitewater/blackwater really depends on the environment and not the river's name! dumb me...anyway....i was wondering if I plan to keep some (5-6) adult speciemens of L052 and NOT zon. pulcher (although i cannot see too much of a difference) would i be keeping a proper biotope under these conditoins:

40 gallon (40 long 18 wide)
6.8-7.0pH maximum
heavily structured with lots of driftwood and stacked rocks, little to no vegetation
sand substrate
500+ gallons/hour length-wise
blackwater extract (how much dosage should i put?)

desperate for a reply
i really want these guys to be in a very nice home

L 52 (Atabapo pleco) comes from the upper Orinoco and L 168 (Butterfly pleco) from the Rio Negro. The truth is, since I am not familiar with L 168, that I am not sure if they are the same or different spp. I know that in the German hobby, they are considered two spp.

The upper Rio Orinoco (above Puerto Carreño) is blackwater. This is where we find Altum angels, Uaru and many other rare blackwater fishes. During the wet season, the upper Orinoco and upper Rio Negro are connected. I do not have a clue how the water between the two rivers decides to flow north or south. The upper Orinoco is very hot. In fact, I would rather wear a coat on the Amazon than a shirt on the upper Orinoco.

Your tank should have a sand substrate with several large boulders, some driftwood, and spawning caves for the L 52. I would not put Acara cichlids in with them. If you are set on cichlids I would go with some Altum angels or Apistos. Better yet, for spawning, I would only add a few blackwater tetras.

At Puerto Carreño, the Rio Meta meets the Orinoco. From here downriver the water is sort of mixed black and whaite water. This is because most of the tribuatries from downriver come from the llanos and are white waters. The upper Orinoco, from which almost all the pretty loricariids originate, is black water.

Some photos might help.
Puerto Carreño is not a safe place to be. The sign reads "Specific Eastern Command. Welcome to Puerto Carreño. We are at war and preparing ourselves for peace."

Looking from Colombia east towards Venezuela. Notice the armed boats.


Another view, looking from Colombia towards venezuela. Note the color of the sand. this is what you should look for.

beautiful...absolutely beautiful!!!!!!! thank you for your generous help!

started my 40 long this week... its 42X18X12 are the measurements....i finally found a hose to connect my emperor 400 filter intake to the opposite end of the tank, and connected two powerheads (300gph and 200gph) to the opposite ends as well...i will post pictures soon...even all the water is circulating one way, i still have some backcurrent as the water hits the walls....

anyway i will post pictures of my progess....right now there is a bare tank and underground tubing that is all....

s. america is a beautiful place