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Can someone point me to a document that explains, in not too technical a way, on the lineages now being used to differentiate between all the different species of Corydoras? Do we need to only worry about cross-breeding among fish within the same lineages?? Thanks

jp11biod wrote: ↑22 Jan 2020, 15:36Do we need to only worry about cross-breeding among fish within the same lineages?? Thanks

Although I wouldn't rule out the possibility of a hybridization event between two species of different lineages, the probability goes way down. I think most cory keepers who keep lots of cory species regard a mixture of any two lineage safe (e.g., 8 and 9, or 4 and 7, etc.).

Cheers, Eric

Hi All,

Just moved this topic into the Corys section as it seems to be a bit more about corys / hybridisation now than it is about taxonomy etc.

Jools

@Coryman sent me the following summary information which I am free to post here.

Corydoradinae lineages.
This is a complete breakdown of Corydoradinae lineages. After the lineage number I have added the appropriate genera i.e. Lineage1: Corydoras. Where the genus name is in brackets there are genera that
were previously published but were subsequently placed in synonymy with Corydoras. These may well be resurrected in the future.

Lineage 1: Corydoras
C. acutus C. amapaensis C. approuaguensis
C. areio C. aurofrenatus C. blochi
C. cervinus C. coriatae C. desana
C. fowleri C. geoffroy C. heteromorphus
C. maculifer C. narcissus C, negro
C. orcesi C. ourastigma C. oxyrhynchus
C. pastazensis C. saramaccensis C. sarareensis
C. semiaquilus C. septentrionalis C. serratus
C. simulatus C. solox C. spilurus
C. senocephalus C. treitlii C. vittatus
C. zawadzkii
C. sp C008 C. sp C016 C. sp C024
C. sp C028 C. sp C029 C. sp C038
C. sp C042 C. sp C047 C. sp C051
C. sp C053 C. sp C061 C. sp C063
C. sp C077 C. sp C078 C. sp C086
C. sp C092 C. sp C094 C. sp C095
C. sp C099 C. sp C109 C. sp C115
C. sp C116 C. sp C124 C. sp C127
C. sp C145 C. sp C149 C. sp C153
C. sp C155 C. sp CW012 C. sp CW017
C. sp CW053 C. sp CW055 C. sp CW059
C. sp CW066 C. sp CW073 C. sp CW075
C. sp CW080 C. sp CW083 C. sp CW116
C. sp CW118 C. sp CW120 C. sp CW121 (C. amapaensis)
C. sp CW124 C. sp CW128 C. sp CW149
C. sp CW156
77
Lineage 2: Aspidoras
A. albater
(A. taurus, A. eurycephalus, C035) A. belenos A. brunneus
A. carvalhoi A. depinnai A. fuscoguttatus
(C036 - C118, C119)
A. gabrieli A. kiriri A. lakoi
A. maculosus A. memphisto A. poecilus
(A. marianae, A. microgalaeus, C037 - C158)
A. psammatides A. raimundi
(A. spilotus, A. menezesi, C125, CW119) A. rochai
A. velites
C. sp CW52 hybrid ? C. sp CW126 C. sp CW141
19
Lineage 3 Scleromystax
S. barbatus S. kronei S. lacerdai
S. macropterus S. prionotos S. reisi
S. salmacis S. virgulatus
S. sp C112 S. sp C113 S. sp CW038
S. sp CW042 S. sp CW067 S. sp CW092
S. sp CW147 S. sp CW148
15
Lineage 4: (Microcorydoras)
C. guapore C. hastatus C. mamore
C. paucerna C. pygmaeus 5
5
Lineage5: (Gastrodermus)
C. bilineatus C. elegans C. gracilis
C. latus C. nanus C. napoensis
C. nijsseni C. pauciradiatus C. undulates
C. sp C041 C. sp C088 C. sp C089
C. sp C093 C. sp C123 C. sp C126
C. sp C132 C. sp CW008 C. sp CW018
C. sp CW019 C. sp CW022 C. sp CW029
C. sp CW033 C. sp CW044 C. sp CW048
C. sp CW056 C. sp CW064 C. sp CW085
C. sp CW087 C. sp CW095 C. sp CW096
C. sp CW100 C. sp CW105 C. sp CW110
C. sp CW123 C. sp CW131 C. sp CW144
36
Lineage 6: (No previous genera).
C. albolineatus C. benattii C. carlae
C. cochui C. dyphyes C. ehrhardti
C. flaveolus C. froehlichi C. gryphus
C. longipinnis C. micracanthus C. nattereri
C. ortegai C. paleatus C. potaroensis
C. reynoldsi C. steindachneri C. tukano
C. sp C114
19
Lineage 7: (Osteogaster).
C. aeneus C. eques C. macrosteus
C. melanotaenia C. rabauti C. schultzei
C. venezuelanus C. zygatus
C. sp CW007 C. sp CW009 C. sp CW010
C. sp CW014 C. sp CW016 C. sp CW023
C. sp CW026 C. sp CW041 C. sp CW068
C. sp CW078 C. sp CW084 C. sp CW093
C. sp CW097 C. sp CW139
22
Lineage 8: Sub clade 1 (Brochis)
B. britskii B. multiradiatus B. splendens
B. *****
B. sp CW034 B. sp CW132 B. sp CW136
7
Lineage 8: Sub clade 2 (No genus)
C. difluviatalis C. garbei C. Hephaestus
C. sp C057 C. sp C067
Lineage 8: Sub clade 3 (No genus)
C. geryi C. pantanalensis C. reticulatus
C. sodalis
C. sp C081 C. sp CW061
Lineage 8: Sub clade 4 (No genus)
C. agassizii C. amandajanea C. ambiacus
C. arcuatus C. bifaciatus C. brittoi
C. condisciplus C. crimmeni C. crypticus
C. delpfax C. ephippifer C. gomezi
C. haraldschultzi C. imitator C. incolicana
C. isbrueckeri C. lamberti C. leopardus
C. noelkempffi C. ornatus C. orphnopterus
C. pavanelliae C. pinheiroi C. pulcher
C. robineae C. robustus C. seussei
C. spectabilis C. sychri C.virginiae
C. sp C009 C. sp C010 C. sp C013
C. sp C018 C. sp C034 C. sp C039
C. sp C049 C. sp C052 C. sp C066
C. sp C068 C. sp C071 C. sp C074
C. sp C075 C. sp C080 C. sp C081
C. sp C087 C. sp C097 C. sp C098
C. sp C101 C. sp C102 C. sp C103
C. sp C110 C. sp C117 C. sp C122
C. sp C128 C. sp C130 C. sp C131
C. sp C135 C. sp C138 C. sp C140
C. sp C141 C. sp C143 C. sp C152
C. sp C156 C. sp C157 C. sp C159
C. sp CW002 C. sp CW006 C. sp CW013
C. sp CW020 C. sp CW040 C. sp CW054
C. sp CW057 C. sp CW058 C. sp CW065
C. sp CW070 C. sp CW072 C. sp CW074
C. sp CW082 C. sp CW089 C. sp CW090
C. sp CW099 C. sp CW101 C. sp CW106
C. sp CW113 C. sp CW117 C. sp CW130
C. sp CW134 C. sp CW135 C. sp CW138
C. sp CW143 C. sp CW150 C. sp CW151
C. sp CW155 C. sp CW157 C. sp CW160
C. sp CW161 97

4
6
Lineage 9 (Hoplisoma)
C. acrensis C. adolfoi C. amphibelus
C. apiaka C. araguaiaensis C. armatus
C. atropersonatus C. axelrodi C. baderi
C. benattii C. bertoni C. bicolor
C. boehlkei C. boesemani C. bondi
C. breei C. brevirostris C. burgessi
C. caudimaculatus C. concolor C. copei
C. coppenamensis C. cruziensis C. davidsandsi
C. duplicareus C. evelynea C. eversi
C. gladysae C. gossei C. granti
C. griseus C. guianensis C. habrosus
C. julii C. kanei C. knaacki
C. lacrimostigmata C. leucomelas C. loretoensis
C. loxozonas C. lymnades C. melanistius
C. melini C. metae C. multimaculatus
C. oiapoquensis C. osteocarus C. panda
C. paragua C. parallelus C. petracinii
C. polystictus C. punctatus C. sanchesi
C. schwartzi C. similis C. sipaliwini
C. sterbai C. surinamensis C. trilineatus
C. urucu C. weitzmani C. xinguensis
C. sp C003 C. sp C006 C. sp C14
C. sp C019 C. sp C021 C. sp C026
C. sp C030 C. sp C033 C. sp C040
C. sp C043 C. sp C044 C. sp C045
C. sp C048 C. sp C054 C. sp C062
C. sp C072 C. sp C073 C. sp C076
C. sp C079 C. sp C081 C. sp C084
C. sp C085 C. sp C090 C. sp C091
C. sp C096 C. sp C100 C. sp C120
C. sp C121 C. sp C129 C. sp C133
C. sp C134 C. sp C136 C. sp C137
C. sp C139 C. sp C142 C. sp C144
C sp C147 C. sp C148 C. sp C150
C. sp C151 C. sp C152 C. sp C154
C. sp CW001 C. sp CW004 C. sp CW015
C. sp CW021 C. sp CW027 C. sp CW028
C. sp CW030 C. sp CW037 C. sp CW039
C. sp CW045 C. sp CW046 C. sp CW047
C. sp CW049 C. sp CW050 C. sp CW051
C. sp CW060 C. sp CW062 C. sp CW063
C. sp CW069 C. sp CW071 C. sp CW076
C. sp CW077 C. sp CW079 C. sp CW081
C. sp CW086 C. sp CW088 C. sp CW091
C. sp CW094 C. sp CW098 C. sp CW102
C. sp CW103 C. sp CW104 C. sp CW107
C. sp CW108 C. sp CW109 C. sp CW111
C. sp CW112 C. sp CW115 C. sp CW122
C. sp CW125 C. sp CW127 C. sp CW129
C. sp CW133 C. sp CW137 C. sp CW140
C. sp CW142 C. sp CW145 C. sp CW146
C. sp CW152 C. sp CW153 C. sp CW154
C. sp CW158 C. sp CW159 C. sp CW162
162 465 species

Maybe also worth noting they are accessible in these groups via:

Lineage 1
Lineage 2
Lineage 3
Lineage 4 (Microcorydoras)
Lineage 5 (Gastrodermus)
Lineage 6 (n. g.)
Lineage 7 (Osteogaster)
Lineage 8 Sub clade 1
Lineage 8 Sub clade 2
Lineage 8 Sub clade 3
Lineage 8 Sub clade 4
Lineage 9 (Hoplisoma)

I'll go through the species list and check if we've got anything out-of-kilter.

Jools

Thanks Jools.

FWIW, a similar and continuously updating version of this list (showing newly add CW numbers and newly described species) can be found on the Corydoradinae subfamily page, here.

Cheers, Eric

Indeed, I think there are some changes to make for example, C121 is considered C. amapaensis - fixing that would be a matter of moving and keepers/breeders of C121 and the common name to C. amapaensis and then also renaming the C121 species entry to something else...

Jools

Correction: CW121, not C121 is C. amapaensis.

Cheers, Eric

Yes, sorry, didn’t take enough time to double check. Anyway, there is merit I think in just harmonising all the data (or not, if reason exists) but as I’ve just rather inadvertently demonstrated, it needs to be done careful, like.



Jools

Given the interest in this subfamily and increasingly in subfamilies more broadly, I’ve redesigned the page to work better on mobiles (now over 50% of our traffic).

Not quite finished yet, so some data will be incomplete, will post again here when done.

Cheers

Jools

Thanks everyone-- this is very helpful

JS

Also, C082 and C083 isn't in the list above. While I've previously lumped C079 and these two into , I now am not sure at all. C082 doesn't even look like lineage 9.

Jools

Jools wrote: ↑02 Mar 2020, 18:45Also, C082 and C083 isn't in the list above. While I've previously lumped C079 and these two into

Corydoras loxozonus

, I now am not sure at all. C082 doesn't even look like lineage 9.

Yes, It's my understanding that all of these C numbers (, and ) are considered variants of Corydoras loxozonus.

In my mind, C079 is a much farther stretch than either C082 or C083. Not much help I suppose in any confirmational effort, but that's their status as I know it.

Cheers, Eric

Worth considering the original DATZ images too.

https://www.datz.de/images/stories/arti ... 001-12.pdf
https://www.datz.de/images/stories/arti ... 2002-8.pdf
https://www.datz.de/images/stories/arti ... 2002-8.pdf

It seems to me that, way back then (2001/2002) they didn't have the knowledge we have now. If they indeed show males and females with different colour types, wouldn't that the only examples of this outside of lineage 5? I'd guess these need another look and I can't think they are all C. loxozonus.


Jools