Need HELP...with Petricola eggs!!!

fishnut2 · Post by **fishnut2** » 26 Dec 2003, 01:28

Please help!
I'm using a marble trap to spawn the petricolas. They've spawned the last 2 days. How do I seperate the eggs from the marbles? The eggs are adhesive...and stick to the marbles. Do I hatch them with with the marbles? Any suggestions would appreciated. Thanks in advance!
Rich

Post by **Barbie** » 27 Dec 2003, 20:33

I would think you'd be alright hatching the eggs with the marbles, as long as you can provide a good flow of oxygenated water over them? Are you using any form of uplift? Or just a straight bowl of marbles?

Congratulations, BTW

Barbie

fishnut2 · Post by **fishnut2** » 28 Dec 2003, 03:00

Hi Barbie,
The trap is a deli cup, filled with marbles. It has an inverted flowerpot which sits on top of the deli cup. The flowerpot has a hole cut out for an entrance. The petricolas have spawned four days in a row now. Since I didn't get a reply...I've been hatching the eggs with the marbles. I had wigglers this morning...so all is well. I don't think I'm doing it the right way...but fortunately...I'm getting lucky.
Thanks for your response!
Rich

pleco_breeder · Post by **pleco_breeder** » 28 Dec 2003, 04:07

Hello,

I don't have personal experience with this, but remember reading an article about putting a hole through the side of the container with the marbles. The hole was just the right size to tightly fit a Tetra Billi filter base through, without the foam. The author said that the eggs were semi-adhesive, and were pulled up the filter and dropped into a tight mesh collection container for hatching and early development.

I'm sorry that I cannot remember the authors name to give credit for this ingenius contraption.

Larry Vires

Yann · Post by **Yann** » 28 Dec 2003, 12:19

Hi Larry!

Isn't it this article

Fishnut: did you use such setup as well? They were some doubt about how effective this setup was...

Cheers
Yann

Post by **Barbie** » 28 Dec 2003, 19:14

His set up is a straight marble cup with a pot on top with a hole for access, about 4 inches in diameter. We discussed it at length last night. I have a friend that built a set up like that airlift on my recommendations (I built one also, but hadn't had them spawning at the time). He found fry in the net breeder, but said they were QUITE tiny, and that there were many more in the pot, once he noticed, that had probably been getting eaten. They only ended up in the basket when they swam too close to the holes. He DID get fry that way though!

Talking to Rich and Larry last night in chat had me wondering what fish I could swap around to free up a tank, hehe. Congrats again Rich

Barbie

fishnut2 · Post by **fishnut2** » 29 Dec 2003, 04:00

Hi Yann,
I just have a marble trap...no means for collection. I've been changing the marble trap every day...and hatching the fry with the marbles. The fry are very small. I'm sure a lot of people are breeding them...and never see the eggs. I have a group of 6 that has spawned 5 days in a row now. Two batches are wiggling now...so about 2-3 days for wigglers...at 78 F. There are a lot of fry. Looks like about 100 from each spawn. I carefully remove the marbles after seeing wigglers. So far...everything looks good.
Rich

barbara · Post by **barbara** » 06 Jan 2004, 21:39

my petricolas are spawning and this time i have the net in place...with the flowerpot, marble and uplift (tetra filter i guess) device. i am wondering if what i am seeing is eggs...they are tiny like grains of sand but perfectly round....and clear, and whitish which makes me wonder IF they are eggs if they are NOT fertilized. guess after reading the above thread i will check in the flowerpot amongst the marbles to see if there are more. the water temp is coolish though...about 75. IF these are eggs will that affect their development other than the speed of it?

fishnut2 · Post by **fishnut2** » 06 Jan 2004, 22:46

Hi Barbara,
My guess, is that you are seeing eggs. They are very small. I think mine have been spawning for a while, but I never seen the eggs. The fry are even smaller. I can't even see them without some type of direct lighting on them. Your temp should be OK. Mine are at 78F.
Rich

fishnut2 · Post by **fishnut2** » 06 Jan 2004, 22:49

This is my marble trap.

barbara · Post by **barbara** » 06 Jan 2004, 23:15

that's a nice setup....i like the large container with the marbles at the bottom. the top of mine is similar....actually I have two of them, but the trays are so small....just the ordinary flower pot tray....the intake of the filter right now rises above the marbles altogether....a bit of slipshod housekeeping on my part but all the better to intake any eggs i think...hope. : )

I might try your version as the breeder net above is fraught with issues....still, it does seem to work.

Where do you keep the eggs once you've seen and collected them? What color are they when you see them?

Your additional details are helpful and the photo as well. It is outrageous to see these petricolas during their frenzy....the first time I saw it I was amazed....they went on for about a day and a half and one of the males ended up with a frayed dorsal fin...that seems to be the norm. I have three males and two females. It appears that this round of activity has already subsided....the females appear to be nearly empty of eggs at least and they are not out and chasing as much as they were yesterday. I think, from what Dinyar and others have said, that mine are still fairly young for breeding....maybe they are like teenagers? Do you know how old yours are?

Do you find that they do not eat during this time period?

again, thank you!

barbara

fishnut2 · Post by **fishnut2** » 07 Jan 2004, 04:04

Hi Barbara,
My colony consists of 6 fish. The 3 older ones are a M and 2 F. They are at least 2 years old. The 3 younger ones were bought at an auction in Youngsown,Ohio...and the age is unknown. I thought the younger ones were still immature, until I found eggs 5 days in a row!
When I see eggs on the marbles...I switch out the bottom section with another trap. I hatch the eggs, with the marbles...until the fry are wigglers. Then I carefully remove the marbles. 1st batch of fry have been free-swimming for about a week now. I'm feeding frozen and freeze-dried cyclops at this point. There's about 100 fry from the 1st batch.
My females seem to stay plump all the time. I conditioned them mainly on live black worms. I pulled the trap for a few days, to condition the colony. It went back in last night...and I have eggs again today. I never seen any rough-housing. But they seem to very active , alll the time.
Hope this helps!
Rich

Post by **Dinyar** » 07 Jan 2004, 05:13

I don't mean this in a negative way, but did want to remind you all that this is not really that you're talking about but an undescribed Tanganyikan Synodontis species that happens to be called "petricola" in the trade.

Dinyar

Yann · Post by **Yann** » 07 Jan 2004, 13:32

Hi Fishnut2!

How big is the breeder tank?
And what are the size of the breeder?
Cheers
Yann

barbara · Post by **barbara** » 07 Jan 2004, 15:14

I have wrigglers this am....amazing. Rich thanks for the details...one remaining question is where you are keeping the fry once they are past the wriggler stage and are free swimming. also should i start feeding them now? i have some powdered food that i can drop in and hopefully they can get it before it filters through the net that contains them at this point.

Dinyar, would you please say some more about s. petricola and what we have? Previously you have commented on dwarf s. petricolas and regular sized ones and mine are the smaller size by our discussion before. I am uncertain as to what you are saying now. Thanks.

Post by **Dinyar** » 07 Jan 2004, 17:12

barbara wrote:Dinyar, would you please say some more about s. petricola and what we have? Previously you have commented on dwarf s. petricolas and regular sized ones and mine are the smaller size by our discussion before. I am uncertain as to what you are saying now. Thanks.

Only that the fishes we call "S. petricola" actually belong to a cluster of species, at least 3-4 and maybe more. The "dwarf petricola" is clearly different enough from the specimens described as Synodontis petricola by Matthes in 1959 to qualify as a separate species. However, it has not received a scientific description, in large part because there appear to be no specimens in scientific collections. Why this is so when the species is quite commonly collected for the trade is a bit of a mystery to me.

And even among the larger fish described in the trade as "S. petricola", there are clearly multiple different species involved.

Lots of apparently similar Tanganyikan cÃ®chlids (e.g., Neolamprologus sexfasciatus and N. tretocephalus) have been recognized as different species for a long time, and more are added to the list every day (e.g., Cyphotilapia frontosa has now been split into C. frontosa from the north and C. gibberosa from the south, a development that caused a lot of ignorant outrage and flames directed at ichthyologists on the CÃ®chlid Forum!). When ichthyologists finally get around to studying Tanganyika Synodontis at the same level of detail that they have studied Tanganyikan cÃ®chlids, many new species will be described. Till then, we hobbyists need to improvise meaningful names on our own.

Dinyar

barbara · Post by **barbara** » 07 Jan 2004, 20:23

Dinyar...thank you for your comments. That does help somewhat but, curiosity prevails, and i am wondering if you can say more about what people are seeing in terms of variation that would help a novice such as myself understand more about the distinguishing characteristics among the types...it does sound like there are distinctions but i am curious as to precisely what they are or to know where to look to find more information on this.

Perhaps there are more additions to the COTM article or species index since i last looked some months ago?

Again, thank you!

Barbara

barbara · Post by **barbara** » 07 Jan 2004, 20:35

hmmmm. one more thought....are you saying that these all are s. petricolas but just variants or that only the original description is the real thing?

i'm thinking of n. brichardi which later (if i recall correctly) had n. pulcher identified as a different form as being one type of "new" identification but also within the pulchers there are local variations. so i'm wondering if the dwarf petricola that i have might be like n. pulcher is to n. brichardi or is it more like n. pulcher to n. pulcher by location? if that is clear. : )

plesner · Post by **plesner** » 07 Jan 2004, 21:04

Dinyar is referring to this one:

http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/mo ... /103_f.php

I've got the same species - they're sooo nice.

barbara · Post by **barbara** » 07 Jan 2004, 22:09

thanks! those thumbnails are new to my eyes!!

sadly one of the males got into the breeder net and ate all the wrigglers...and there were more and more each time i looked. : (

maybe there is a remnant or so but i don't see any right now and it took so long to get him out, requiring a disassembly of the rig and so any remainders are probably in the tank and dinner by now. oh well, perhaps next time.

Post by **Dinyar** » 08 Jan 2004, 02:25

barbara wrote:Dinyar...thank you for your comments. That does help somewhat but, curiosity prevails, and i am wondering if you can say more about what people are seeing in terms of variation that would help a novice such as myself understand more about the distinguishing characteristics among the types...it does sound like there are distinctions but i am curious as to precisely what they are or to know where to look to find more information on this.

Perhaps there are more additions to the COTM article or species index since i last looked some months ago?

Again, thank you!

Barbara

Yes, I was referring to different species, not intraspecific variation. In terms of describing the variation, I am not an ichthyologist and that is something that should be done on the basis of careful empirical investigation by specialists, so I am really not in a position to answer your question in detail. What I can say is that after having looked closely at many so-called "petricolas", to my layman's eye there are clearly major morphological differences between various groups of fish. The group that is most obviously different is the "dwarf".

Let's hope that someone with the appropriate taxonomic skills gets to the bottom of this before too long.

Sorry to hear of your "accident". Hope your pair spawn again for you soon.

Dinyar

fishnut2 · Post by **fishnut2** » 09 Jan 2004, 03:15

Hi Yann,
I have 6 breeders in a 20H.
Rich

Need HELP...with Petricola eggs!!!

Need HELP...with Petricola eggs!!!

size of eggs