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Hello everyone!

Over Christmas break I went on a pretty amazing trip with my family and had a great time exploring the Galapagos, The Rio Ucayali (didn't run into any catfish though ) and Machu Picchu but thats a tail for the travelers notebook I believe.

I'm posting here because of a discovery I made in preparation for that trip, I had been loosing a battle with red and brown diatoms in that tank for some time now. I lost all of my echinodorus to it (would have figured it was the banjos but they seem to stay out of the "garden" area when they dig ). Any way I was cleaning out the filters to some degree (half of the sponges, changing carbon, filter floss etc) and when I got to the 29 Gallon I went into the filter there was nothing... No brown sponges or beneficial bacteria sludge. It appears that for the last 2 years they have been living in an uncycled tank . I always assumed that between the 4 and the lone (King Bard) that the bioload was enough and never saw any evidence of an unstable system besides the diatoms. So the plan is to seed the tank with a sponge from the 55 gallon (again) but lightly increasing the bioload with a small shoal of tetra (just 5-6 to start, possibly building that up to a group of nine or so) to stabilize the tank, give the residents some dithers and make it pausible to have plants in the tank once again. Since noticing this problem I have added three to the tank to save what was left of my rummy nose tetra shoal in the 55 gallon I had them in orignally (went from 12 to 4...). Although the could definetly eat the two smaller I am confident that they are much to quick for the river king and they have enough cover to ellude him until they grow to the size of the third one. So now that you have way more of a backstory than necessary we arrive to the question in the title- the aren't going to be an issue but the other two species might prove to be troublesome with tetras of the smaller range and the size of the tank excludes any larger tetras such as Buenos Aires tetras. The tank is 36 long, 12 deep and 15 tall (inches), the PH value stays in between 5.00 and 6.00 and the temp is kept at 76F.

I've produced a small list of possibilities and was wondering what you guys would recommend from the list or otherwise. I'm open to things that aren't in the characin family but have been struggling to find anything else thats readily available. I would love some suggestions though! The Current list is as follows:
Gymnocorymbus ternetzi- Black skirt tetra
Hyphessobrycon megalopterus- Black phantom tetra
Hemigrammus ocellifer- Head and tail light tetra
Hemigrammus erthrozonus- Glowlight tetra
Hasemania nana- Silvertip tetra
Moenkhausia sanctaefilomenae- Red eye tetra
Nematobrycon palmeri- Emperor tetra

Any help is much appreciated!

From what I read, I would not assume your tank is not cycled - because that is impossible. Yoiur fish excrete ammonia, and bacteria which eat ammonia will colonize your tank, producing nitrite, which is eaten too.

What I think is - your tank is a good example of what we should all do, keeping the amount of fishes low, so that the tank is nearly in equilibrium. The little waste your fishes produce is taken care of, without any unneeded growth of the cleaning department

That does imply you could add fishes, however. But in that case you might have to do more keeping the tank proper.

Frankly, I am beginning to appreciate a tank with less fishes and thus less maintenance more and more

any chance for pictures of the tank? I like to be inspired by the tank. I would give suggestions after seeing

Hi all,

catfishchaos wrote:........ and when I got to the 29 Gallon I went into the filter there was nothing... No brown sponges or beneficial bacteria sludge. It appears that for the last 2 years they have been living in an uncycled tank .

Bas Pels wrote:What I think is - your tank is a good example of what we should all do, keeping the amount of fishes low, so that the tank is nearly in equilibrium. The little waste your fishes produce is taken care of, without any unneeded growth of the cleaning department

I think the same as "Bas Pels".

The most relevant question would be is the tank planted? I keep fairly heavily planted, lightly stocked tanks, and there is very rarely much bacterial sludge in the filter.

I have a sponge pre-filter on the intake which I clean regularly and I only open the filter bodies every six months or so.

cheers Darrel

Your tank is certainly cycled, However, there are some differences between yours and the average tank because of your pH. The bacteria in your tank which do the ammonia oxidation are ones able to process ammonia as NH4 as opposed to NH3. The nitrite bacs should be the same ones. There is an advantage to your pH and that is any ammonia in your tank should be almost 100% NH4. NH3 ammonia is the toxic form and can be fatal at very low levels (0.05 ppm).

Several years ago I got wild altum angels and brought them into a tank at 4.2 pH. I had a great plan to cycle filter for a pH of 6.0 in another tank as I gradually raised the pH in the angel tank to 6.0. The idea was to have the filters ready for 6.0 when the fish tank got there. But a funny thing happened along the way. The tank with the fish cycled itself. By the time I had it a 6.0 about 5 or 6 months after I got the fish, it had been testing O/0/ for some time.

In any tank between about 6.5 and 9.0 pH, one one of two things can happen if fish are present. Either the requisite number of needed bacteria will colonize in a matter of weeks (about 5) or else the fish will killed. The fish may merely be damaged by the time the tank cycles itself. That depends on which fish and how many are involved.

The fact you had fish living for so long means you had bacteria other places in the system. The bacteria will attach to any hard surface where it gets a flow of nutrients and oxygen. The bacteria are somewhat photosensitive so they tend to colonize out of the direct light.

Is your tank naturally that low in pH or are you doing something to lower it? I know most municipal water systems hate acid water because of its effects on pipes.

I remain skeptical thats the case simply because I have never had any issues like this with my 55 gallon (in terms of algal and diatom growth as well as the unsuccess with plants) as well as how I discover food when I clear the canister filter that has not seemingly started to decay where as the cannister on the 55 has clearly decayed or doesn't exist in the same state.

Both tanks are in the same room that has one window with a light blocking curtain that always remains down. The tanks are the same brand with all the same gear (granted of different proportions) and are kept at the same temperature with the same water change regime from the same tap. Food, layout, water movement, air stones/pumps, filter media and overall maintenance are all the same. The only difference seems to be the stocking levels. The PH in my area is 5.0-5.5 from the tap and that stays the same level in both of the tanks. I really want to have planted area because the catfish enjoy the cover, the tanks water itself stay nicer for longer (I don't slack on weekly water changes but I do a lot of travel) and it gives the tank a much more lively feel.

I'm open to suggestions but I fail to see any discrepancies besides stocking levels (especially ones large enough to have this impact). Here is a photo of the tank in which (if you turn up your devices brightness) you can see the problem corner (which was also the planted corner- there is one echinodorus left but it has shriveled out of view and a lone stem staurogyne repens is also hidden from view, both are the last of what was pretty well planted area. I hope I'm not coming across as argumentative or that I don't believe all of the suggestions and idealolgies, I just don't understand how I'm having problems in a tank that has found an equilibrium compared to a moderately stocked tank that has never developed these problems. Thank you all for your help! Hopefully we can figure this out because its been driving me batty since five months after the tanks creation.

Well I am strictly sticking to the stocking question part of this discussion.. LOL..

I think if you are looking for color/schooling.. i would go with a decent school of red and blue columbian tetras.. I loved my school when i had my 125.. they got big (3" TL?) and were super blue and red. Not sure if the ones i had were just really well kept and fed, or if they all grow into that. I also am fond of Lemon Tetras. The yellow always looks good popping against the dark background.

I have never kept them, but if you want something a little more aggressive (not sure how they are again as i have not kept them..) but i admire Exodon Paradoxus.

catfishchaos wrote: 25 Jan 2017, 11:29 ... Any way I was cleaning out the filters to some degree (half of the sponges, changing carbon, filter floss etc) and when I got to the 29 Gallon I went into the filter there was nothing... No brown sponges or beneficial bacteria sludge. It appears that for the last 2 years they have been living in an uncycled tank ...../.

By this you mean the filter media was in the filter but was basic "new" looking?

Are you sure the filter is assembled correctly. I have see some models of fliters where the can be assembled incorrectly and the intake to return path in the filter can bypass the filter media completely. If that is the case I would suspect the top level of the media would be somewhat discolored.