Brazil Export Bans?

[Ltygress]

Anyone have a link to a CURRENT and/or regularly updated list of species currently BANNED from export from Brazil? There's talk of the L134 being banned again, and lots of hobbyists are finding a serious lack of L134 with retailers. I'm wondering if it's all related, or just because we're in the rainy season right now for the Amazon River.

[Acanthicus]

Hi,

there is no list of banned species at the moment.
You might want to read the latest CSG-Journal to get an update of the actual situation.

[carkichi]

It is off the banned list along with others until March 2017.

[Jools]

For those interested in the facts, http://catfishstudygroup.org/journal/

Jools

[Ltygress]

So pay money for a simple list of what is banned and what isn't?

No thanks.

[Ltygress]

It is off the banned list along with others until March 2017.

OFF of the ban list or ON? And which others?

I just found a source (german website) saying they are ON the ban list as of January 2016. As in, you can not export them from Brazil.

[carkichi]

It is OFF. Then it will be banned starting March 2017.

Others are L264, L14, L24 and some others as I was told by my importer friend.

[Acanthicus]

Paying 6 quid a year to get 4 issues of a great magazine filled with catfish articles is too much?
Sorry to hear. But you might also try the portuguese speaking website to look the information up. All I can say that it is not sure yet what species will be banned in March, none of the mentioned species will be banned for sure. L 24 has never been on the banned list (Red List) by the way.

cheers, Daniel

[Ltygress]

Paying for one specific piece of information, is too much. I am not the type to read magazines for all, or even most, or even main articles. I look for specific information - answers to questions I have - and then move on. So I would basically be paying that money for four entire magazines that I don't want.


AND for information I already got elsewhere. I asked the same information on plecoplanet.com forums and got probably the same exact answer that would have been written out in that article. BUT, it's a source I can actually follow now for specific information on species of plecos that are banned and/or unbanned. For that magazine, I'd have to wait until someone else found out, then felt like reporting on it, and then for that issue to come out. In the meantime, I'd be wasting money and paper, and who knows if it would even come out during the time of my subscription or not.

Welcome to the information age.

[medaka]

Paying for one specific piece of information, is too much.

I'm sorry you feel that way. The research done on this particular news worthy item has taken the CSG team time and effort to find; it takes time, effort and money to produce the quarterly journal for its subscribers, anyone who subscribes will vouch for its value for money.

I am sure with similar time and effort you can source the same information for free as well. Because if it is not available somewhere for free then the CSG has asked the copywriter permission to solely use it in their publication(s)

[CoryWally]

There's also an article on L134 (mentioned in the original post) in the same edition of the CSG Journal, plus a separate article on collection of Loricarids in the Rio Xingu, both impacted by the restrictions.

[TwoTankAmin]

Correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is that there is no such thing as a banned list. Basically, all fish are banned from export except for those on the permitted for export list. This would be the only practical way to do things since it would be difficult to ban the export of fish not yet formally identified? The L-number system won't work in this case.

[Narwhal72]

I think it depends on what perspective you look at it. The IBAMA list is a white list. Only fish listed on the list are legal to export from Brazil. Fish not identified on the list are not legal to export.

If a fish is not on the list the effect is the same as if it was put on a "black" list of restricted species. So the fish isn't "banned" by name but the effect is the same.

White lists are far more restrictive to trade than black lists. New, less popular, and undescribed species become restricted to export because of the lack of data or commercial interest. These tend to be the species most desired by hobbyists.

There have been a couple of bills put before Congress in the U.S. to create a white list system in the U.S. So far they have not left committee. But if that were to be implemented the aquarium industry in the U.S. would collapse. One state tried to pass a bill limiting the aquarium trade to just goldfish.

The state of Maine has a white list program. Here is what you can legally import into Maine.
http://www.maine.gov/ifw/wildlife/human ... icted.html


Andy

[CoryWally]

D K-V's article answers all the questions. L numbers not covered by the red list (of species carrying an export ban), although some L's that are believed to be variations of a species are.

[PseudaSmart]

People are being too politically correct. I will cut to the chase with facts rather than opinions.

In Brazil
There is a 'permitted species' list of fish that are allowed for export.
There is a Brazilian 'endangered species' including fish that are at risk.
The endangered list overrides anything on the permitted list.

Here is the DIRECT LINK to the Brazilian website with links to the lists.

http://www.ibama.gov.br/areas-tematicas ... permitidas

Yes it is written in Portuguese.

The only thing I'm trying to figure out is the interest in the list. If a person is too cheap to spend a few dollars for a journal subscription and then doesn't even want to take the time to read an article then what's the point? Obviously they don't have the time or the money for even an inexpensive aquarium.

[TwoTankAmin]

I have been looking over the lists. What I do not understand is how Pekoltia Compta is not on the permitted list but L134 is? Apparently no Hypancistrus may be removed from Brazil? And, are a lot of L-numbers on the list. Even though the list is in Portuguese, it is easy to read as it uses as close to scientific names as possible, http://www.ibama.gov.br/areas-tematicas ... ntais/tudo

[vlg1728]

I talked some weeks ago (in august) to a guy who imports fish from Brazil for his online shop : He cannot import L134 anymore.

[prairiefire]

There was some kind of temporary ban on some plecos earlier in the year. If I remember right it ended a couple months ago and L-134's L-14's etc are back on Brazillian exporter stock lists.

[Acanthicus]

Hi,

it's funny to see that the mentioned topic on plecoplanet is pretty empty, except one guy who probably got his information from....from the article in the CSG magazine. Also it's interesting to see that the posted link shows incorrect information.

There are a lot of changes happening at the moment, Brazil is changing as a country of "tropical fish export", so new changes are just a matter of time.

cheers, Daniel

[L-ko]

Hi,

the article which is linked in plecoplanet is almost 2 months older than the CSG magazine!
Neither in plecoplanet nor in the linked article were any information from CSG magazine used!

Greetings
Elko

[TwoTankAmin]

I realize that IBAMA already has zebra pleocs listed as endangered. However, I was recently told that they were about to be put on the CITES list as well in the near future. Has anybody heard about this or any other Xingucentric species about to be added by CITES?

Edit: I have just confirmed that effective Jan 2, 2017 Hypancistrus will be on the Cites list under Appendix III. They are also adding a lot of rays from Brazil and Colombia. It looks like all rays will not be allowed for export from Brazil.

Here is the reference https://cites.org/sites/default/files/n ... 16-056.pdf

The following is their description of Appendix III:

Appendix III is a list of species included at the request of a Party that already regulates trade in the species and that needs the cooperation of other countries to prevent unsustainable or illegal exploitation (see Article II, paragraph 3, of the Convention). International trade in specimens of species listed in this Appendix is allowed only on presentation of the appropriate permits or certificates. (See Article V of the Convention)

Species may be added to or removed from Appendix I and II, or moved between them, only by the Conference of the Parties, either at its regular meetings or by postal procedures (see Article XV of the Convention). But species may be added to or removed from Appendix III at any time and by any Party unilaterally (although the Conference of the Parties has recommended that changes be timed to coincide with amendments to Appendices I and II).

from https://www.cites.org/eng/app/index.php

Basically, Brazil is asking for other countries to help curtail the removal of these species from the Xingu. I guess they feel strongly that its their right to kill them all rather than let them leave the country.

[Janne]

This list are old and not valid http://www.ibama.gov.br/areas-tematicas ... ntais/tudo

They have not updated their homepage, the last and valid permitted list are INI n1, de 3 de janeiro de 2012 - Ornamentais.

CITES app III don't forbid export of a specie, if the species not are in any endangered list and are permitted for example through quotas like Potamotrygon species, they are allowed to be exported but need a CITES permit provided by authorities and if a third country want to export the same species they need a certificate of origin, to list these species in CITES app III are the only real tool a country has to improve the control of illegal trade and other countries will help them to do it.

Some popular species was added in the new endangered list December 2014, this list was suspended by court decision for 1 year for further research and investigations of species that are in doubts if they really are either vulnerable or endangered, nothing happened and no one did nothing, maybe because of the political turbulence in this country. From December 2015 the industry had 6 months to adapt to the new endangered list but no information what so ever was provided by authorities to the industry. End of June 2016 the list become in practice and species listed become forbidden to collect and to export, the industry was allowed to export their stocks that was informed to IBAMA, except in the state of Pará where the local IBAMA office made their own translation of the new laws and did not permit export of remaining stock (federal law permitted export of remaining stock until August 14). In a meeting in Brasilia end of August ICMBio postponed the new endangered list until October 31 but only short time after this meeting a new court decision was made that suspended the new endangered list until 1st March 2017, if no one do nothing before that the new list will become in practice.

Janne

[CharlieM9]

Great information thanks Janne!

[HaakonH]

So if nobody does anything, the new list of species no longer allowed for export will be valid from March 2017? Who must do something to stop this? And how? Is it likely that the list will become reality, or is it likely that someone will be able to stop it?

The proposed list of species, is it the same we heard about this summer (L14, L134, L264 and so on), or has it chenged?

Haakon

[Janne]

ICMBio need to re-evaluate these species in the endangered list that not are endangered, maybe make the same they did before December 2014 by inviting +1000 researchers in Brazil to answer a questionnaire of 5 questions if I remember correct, for species they thought should be in the new endangered list, have some online workshops etc. without asking any fisherman or any people involved in the ornamental fishery activity??

Several species was listed as precaution due lack of information, for example species in Tapajos basin was listed because Brazil plan in the future to build a new dam in Sao Luis, that argument is not valid since there are no one building a dam in Sao Luis and it will probably never happen, Brazil has no money.

I think by asking to many researchers and to not involve people that work in the ornamental fishery, there are many errors and guessing, it's also a wide lack of knowledge and with that I don't mean that researchers in person not has any knowledge, I mean there are other problem like not enough money to make a good research for example the distribution of a species, I'm absolutely sure there are researchers that put a species in this list because they only know it occur in a certain small area when in reality has a very large distribution not researched by science, it does cost quite a lot of money if you for example want to map the distribution of Scobinancistrus aureatus or pariolispos when their real distribution has an area as France or almost the size of Europe. There are also a lack of knowledge of natural reproductive behavior of species and how reproductive they really are or not are in some cases, for example many species does reproduce all the year around and not only under a certain time, how we know that are easy since we always find babies in all months of a year, some species has a peak season other a short season. I believe that main reason for such lack of knowledge are in most cases money, there are many good researchers in Brazil but may not have enough money to make larger projects and in some cases if they have they are not good a administrator handling the money, it's quite expensive making good research.

The new list published is "Portaria 445" and it include the species you list and some more.

Janne