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(both species of which are very small now), plus a few albino corys.
Originally, I was going to add in some tetras, which I still might choose to do, but a small voice in my brain is encouraging me to consider some South American cichlids, although probably not Apistos. I just saw
for sale at WetSpot and I believe this is a species I kept and bred as a child, and I remember liking the species for its colors and funky head shape.
But here's my question - I know that Geo's can get aggressive as they mature and although they're mouth-breeders, they hang out near the substrate around the time of spawning. Would a group of 4-5 of them be a bad mix with these plecos? I can imagine that as the plecos age, their own aggression levels will increase towards other fish near the substrate of the tank.
What experiences do you have with Geophagus steindachneri and Peckoltia or Panaqolus?
Thanks for your help.
Cheers, Eric
Last edited by bekateen on 21 Aug 2017, 01:16, edited 1 time in total.
Eric,
I would not do it. In addition to the issues you mention above the cichlids will also gobble up just about every food offered before the plecos even know it is there. They are also likely to gobble up any pleco fry.
-Shane
"My journey is at an end and the tale is told. The reader who has followed so faithfully and so far, they have the right to ask, what do I bring back? It can be summed up in three words. Concentrate upon Uganda."
Winston Churchill, My African Journey
Thanks for your perspective, Shane. I may be a couple of years away from pleco fry, but that's irrelevant; I've never taken on new fish if I couldn't keep them for the foreseeable future. So I'll nix the idea of Geo's.
Are there any cichlids you'd recommend? Or am I pretty much limited to tetras (which wouldn't be a bad thing).
Discrossus would be an option or Laetacara or Taeniacara. All nice dwarf non Apistos. I do have a soft spot for tetras. Maybe a few cichlids from the above and a nice school of tetras.
-Shane
"My journey is at an end and the tale is told. The reader who has followed so faithfully and so far, they have the right to ask, what do I bring back? It can be summed up in three words. Concentrate upon Uganda."
Winston Churchill, My African Journey
100% with Shane. I had G. steindachneri in my 125 gallon with some Panaque (fairly big) and Pseudacanthicus (and other plecos, such as L129) and when they were in there but plecos didn't get enough food. Once I sold them my plecos became bolder, and I started getting fry out of the L129.
Thanks guys. Right now I'm in thought mode, not bought mode. So I've got time. No Dicrossus, Laetacara or Taeniacara available in my immediate area, so worth some research. As far as tetras go, I've been wanting lemons. I know they can be fin nippers, but they are so pretty. I'll see what others are available too. I would consider hatchets again, but I think my water current is too strong in this tank.
I guess my Geo's will have to wait till another day... and aquarium... comes along.
My experience with lemon tetra's is that they are quite active hunters. In my aquarium they hunted as a pack to take down fully-grown shrimps (2-3cm). In a way it was great to see them work together like this, but it was not very nice for the shrimps ;). I'm not sure if I would trust them with pleco fry.
I'm having the same discussion with myself regarding my Ancistrus claro tank, so I know how hard it is to figure out what the best option is ;).
It will probably take a while before your fish to start breeding so for the adults it won't matter what you pick, but you still want the little ones to be save when they do, so you sort of have to think about the future as well. In my opinion food is also not easy with fish with a special diet (like the panaqolus). They really like meaty foods, but it's not the best option for them, but you don't want to refuse the other fish like the tetra's (which are mostly carnivorous) from eating things like frozen food either.
So good luck in finding a good addition to the tank!!
I have seen even small cichlids like Geophagus Ramirezi hunt down pleco fry (BN). I don't think there are any Cichlids to be trusted. Maybe there are some herbivorous only, but idk.
Understood. Again, although breeding of either of the pleco spp. in this tank is likely years away, my thoughts go to protecting the young then. Currently, my habit with pleco spawns is to leave eggs with dad, and leave fry with dad until yolk is almost absorbed. Then I transfer the fry to a fry basket and provided them focused feeding until they grow a few weeks old after yolk absorption; only after that will I return the young to the parents' tank, or to a separate grow-out tank, to swim free.
While that much protected growth wouldn't make the young plecos large enough to avoid big cichlids like Geos, the young would more than likely be big enough to put off most small tetras (and lemons?) and dwarf cichlids.
Back to the subject of cichlids, what about Nannacara (
I know, they are less beautifull on the first look, but if you go with Mikrogeophagus I would recommend the Altispinosus over the Ramirezis. I had both and raised fry of both. The "German Blue Ram" are beautifull, but they are tough on each other. You must have either only one pair or a really big school. If you go for 3-5 individuals the "weaker" ones will be driven to death very soon, even in larger tanks than yours. Even females stress each other a lot. A single pair of Rams will do fine even in a smaller tank. But groups are really tough, no matter the tanksize. But no matter what you do, they tend to die young. Even in warm, soft, acidic water, they usually die within 1.5 Years. I thought this was more a problem of inbreeding and the likes, so I went for four wildcaughts at some point. They did quite fine and I'd say they lived longer than any of the tank-raised I had before. Sadly it was four males. They came along quite nicely for about a year, but when I introduced some tank bred females, the dying from stress/starvation started all over again.
Meanwhile I am with the altispinosus. I went for a single pair first to check them out. They ended up looking quite nice. So I went for another 2 and this worked out as well. By now I think I have 6-7 in my 400L tank. Somethimes they school all together, sometimes they are all going solo. Maybe this depends on breeding or the likes. They do fight sometimes. But NEVER like the rams did. Everyone gets to eat, nobody has to die of stress or starvation. They even breed and raise the fry for like one week in my community tank with the angels and tetras. No idea how they manage to defend them, my rams had only managed to keep the eggs for 1-2 days in there, not once did I see ram fry swim in there. But they don't work out in the smaller tanks. Where even a 30liter tank seems to be fine for a pair of Ram to start breeding, the altispinosus wouldn't even breed in a 60liter. They need bigger tanks to feel well. I actually only got them to breed in the 400L tank and had to remove the eggs for artificial breeding. But it's really nice watching them raise the fry for like a week until they are minimized by their tankmates to the point where the parents stop defending their offspring due to frustration. They seem to get older than Rams and are more hardy and dont tend to kill each other and they look and behave more like the big geophagus compared to the Ramirezi.
They are both nice and easy to come by, except for wild caughts. But the level of frustration can be bigger on the Rams. I don't like fish that will die within less than two years, that was just really frustrating to me. Though, watching Ram-parents raise their fry in a small seperate tank can be a really heartwarming thing, I would recommend altispinosus to everyone that looks for a more peacefully, hardy and long living fish.
What Shane said about the feeding problems is actually the biggest concern with any cichlid and plecos. They are very fast at gobbling up huge quantities of food. That was the biggest problem I had as well keeping large cichlids with plecos of varying size. The way to tackle this issue is offer foods big and hard enough for the cichlids to not be able to eat or only be able to eat very slowly. For small cichlid species, large tablets or waffles do the trick and give plecos their edge back at feeding, as do veggies. For big cichlids, Repashy Morning Wood mixed with whatever else the pleco needs depending on its natural feeding habits, does the trick when fed in large chunks. So the feeding problem is solvable no matter what cichlid and pleco you go for.
Now regarding pleco fry and small plecos, if you give them an impenetrable rock structure to hide in when threatened, plenty will survive. The rock crevices allow for feeding the fry with granules in there which the cichlids cannot reach. The cichlids are not natural hunters in the aquarium except when starved. So if you keep them fed and happy, they don't search for alternative ways of filling their bellies. And most cichlids don't think of fish as food unless severely starved or fed with it in the past. I keep large cichlids and have introduced small catfish and cichlid fry a good few times with no losses. I just keep a watchful eye on the introduction and tell no to any fish eyeing the newcomer as possible food item. The cichlids listen, they are dog like fish. Large plecos are the same.
From my experience, non-breeding cichlids completely ignore plecos once they get to know them. Plecos and catfish in my tank are very outgoing, always out and about swimming with the cichlids, so I don't think cichlids intimidate them but rather act like dithers. But cichlids need other cichlids to divert aggression away from the catfish. And better not breed the cichlids if you don't want bitten fins on the plecos which will fight to get to the eggs and eat them... So it's better to keep singles of different cichlid species. Or keep a cichlid species too small for the tank to guard any significant portion of the tank's bottom.
Mikrogeophagus altispinosus is a very gentle species I can vouch for, they just push the opponents away instead of bite. Herotilapia multispinosa is pretty quiet as well and herbivorous, though it has teeth that bite well if it wants to. A 75g tank is too small to go with anything larger. The Geophagus will be too much I think if you keep a group. Plecos like these add quite some bioload as well.
To sum it up, keeping plecos with cichlids creates new concerns and inconveniences but are solvable with some thought.
