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EDIT: About one year after arrival, the L397 spawned! (To jump to post, click here)

EDIT AGAIN : About 13 months after arrival, the P. compta spawned too - AWESOME! (To jump to post, click here)

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As a follow up to this post: Want advice: how to set up a 75 gal tank's filtration system for Panaqolus

I'm home safe and sound with 23 (now 9 for me and 7 each for my two friends) and 8 (all for me ). 100% survival of all the fish I bought!

Individually or in pairs (for the smallest specimens), the fish were double-bagged in breather bags, each bag with no more than 100ml water (two full shot glasses of water per bag - thank you, Tourist-trap store selling Shakespeare shot glasses), treated with SeaChem Prime used at about 4-5x strength (I estimate). The fish were bagged for about 22 hours like this. Each bagged fish was then wrapped in a 1/2 sheet of newspaper, then arranged in a layer in the Styrofoam box. Three layers of bags were separated above and below by some really funky-smelling socks from my 14-day visit to the UK (I'm sorry the fish had to breathe that through their breather bags). Then into my checked suitcase the foam box (taped closed) went.

After receiving official USFWS importation approval late last night (all three of us had to sign letters declaring that we would not use these fish in ANY commercial fashion for gain or profit), I had no trouble in US Customs once in the USA.

I'd like to thank everyone who made this possible. First and foremost, Nick Ridout, both for the P. compta and for the amazing orchestration he performed with other parties involved to arrange, receive and store some of the L397s, for meeting me at Stonehenge to make the transfer, and also for the home-made c**k-cover caves he shared. I will not mention the actual names of the suppliers of the L397, for anonymity sake, but I cannot thank you folks enough, and more thanks to one of you for going to the trouble to drive into London to meet me at my hotel to deliver the L397s; without that, the purchase couldn't have happened!!!

I also got some great oak caves for my friends and me from Robert Pope. Thanks so much Robert.

Finally, I want to thank several people (again, anonymous) who gave me great advice and wisdom for packing the fish and navigating the process. If I talked to you about bagging and packing fish, you know who you are!

You folks were all awesome. Thanks to you, there are some wonderful plecos in California tonight.

The fish are currently in a slow drip acclimation to my water before going in the tank. I haven't slept a wink sink 6am Saturday (London time, and yet I'm not done till the fish go in the tank).

Thanks again to everyone!!!!!

Cheers, Eric

And icing on the cake, one of my clowns is sitting on another batch of newly hatched fry (not counting the fry in the fry-saver from the day I left town two weeks ago) and a second clown dad is sitting on eggs. Alas, no spawns for anybody else... Although my male mustard spot is FINALLY getting really hairy. Hopefully that indicates future prospects. I was beginning to wonder if my putative male was actually male... The good news is, he is!

Cheers, Eric

Great to hear they all made it and the paperwork worked out. Now the fun begins...

Jools

Wow, great! Well done job on the packaging! Best luck with them!

Are L134 hard to come by in the US? I know the L397 are rather rare over there.

Thanks, Jools and Johannes. Yeah, I'm pretty excited right now.

The paperwork is a story unto itself (getting it right), even though at its core it is straight-forward. I unwittingly (or perhaps nitwittedly) made it more difficult by changing my plans along the way and bringing back so many fish at once, more than I originally declared. Understandably, this gave the USFWS the impression that I was trying to pull a fast one and that I planned to sell the fish for profit upon my return. But the inspectors were amazingly patient with me and guided me and my two friends to a solution. Without the patience and guidance of the inspectors, this would have ended with no fish coming home.

Jobro wrote:Are L134 hard to come by in the US? I know the L397 are rather rare over there.

Yes, P. compta are uncommon in the USA (well at least in the places I've been). But they are much more available than are L397. It's just that when they are available, they cost about 2-3 times more than I paid. Granted, stores would sell larger fish than the ones I bought, but I think most good pleco keepers are willing to buy young fish for the lower price so that they can save money obviously, but also so that they can have the experience and pleasure of raising the young.

Cheers, Eric

Hey, it's time to change my signature graphic!

In that light, I almost bought six at $15 apiece, a deal as far as I'm concerned. But given (1) my available tank space at home, (2) the amount I'd already spent on plecos on this trip, (3) that I was already nervous about my packing technique and whether any individuals might die in flight and I've been told that C. robineae is more sensitive than typical corys when it comes to transport, and (4) that I didn't want to make matters worse between myself and the USFWS, I elected to pass on them. So they will have to remain in my signature graphic for a while longer.

Cheers, Eric

Does double bagging the breather bags effect the O2/CO2 exchange rate in the water?

Yes, I've read that the second layer reduces gas exchange by 50%, but apparently that's still okay if otherwise packed correctly.

Congrats Eric! Way to take it too the next level. Look forward too you becoming the granddaddy of 90% of the L397's on the west coast!

Thanks, Clay... Sounds like you have big plans for me. LOL

They look very nice, put me on the fry waiting list. I live 20 minutes from you. Do you know R. Bireley?

Hi zebra10,

These fish are still very young. It'll be a while before any are large enough to spawn. And even when they're big enough, the fish will only spawn if they want to. But I'll be sure to tell everyone if and when they do.

Yes Rich is a friend, and he is one of the other people getting some of these fish in this shipment.

Cheers, Eric

Small World, this is great news. It feels great to have two connections very close by, for future L397 pleco fry.

Happy it all went well!! Congratulations with your fish and I hope you will enjoy them for many years to come

Yes 'granddaddy' put me on the christmas list for ... about 2 years from now !

Congrats on your new fish. Wow a good news story with USFWS? On the orchid forums all I see are bashing USFWS and CITES. Hopefully your will reproduce soon (and we will see progeny at the Catfish Convention).

Thanks. Indeed I have nothing but praise for the USFWS in this case. About the future, the USFWS inspectors were very clear that by allowing this import as "personal" (vs. "commercial"), they required all three of us to sign letters of intent with explicit understanding that neither the fish nor their progeny will be used now or in the future for profit or gain. So if any of the three of us are fortunate enough in the future that any of our fish breed, and if we seek to share them with others, as I understand the rules, we cannot gain or profit from them; we will have to go back to USFWS to find out what our options are. I'm fine with that.

Great looking fish!! Congrats with your new editions and I'm happy that their journey oversees went so well.

Congratulations on the successful search and acquisition of such cool fish!

Thanks Marlonneke and NCE12940.

Cheers, Eric

Congrats on the L397s

bekateen wrote:... neither the fish nor their progeny will be used now or in the future for profit or gain...

I'm sure by the time these fish breed, the cost of raising and maintaining the parents as well as the fry would negate any sale price that you would charge.

The new fish are settling in. I removed the grapevine from the tank since it was getting so slimy. I had hoped the Panaqolus would keep the wood clean by eating the slime, but given that these fish are so expensive I decided this wasn't the time to experiment. So out went the grapevine and in went a few well-seasoned old pieces of wood which I've used before. Not all have sunk yet; two still float on the surface. Likewise my new oak caves haven't sunk yet either.

The tank is relatively barren because I have not yet transferred the extra 14 L397s to my friends and I don't want the fish capturing effort to be difficult. Once their fish are out, I'll clutter up the tank with more wood and stones.

The fish are eating well; you can see the sweet potato and zucchini chewed to pieces.

Also in this tank are a single common BN, a single (almost year-old) Panaqolus maccus juvie from my own stock, and my adult albino corys. Last night was their first live black worm meal in two weeks, and now the tank is covered with a few hundred cory eggs (look on the upper right side pane of glass, and on the HOB intake tube on the left side of the tank)... Food for the plecos.

The other photo shows a collection of fins belonging to several L397s, at least one P. compta, and the P. maccus (in the cave).

Cheers, Eric

bekateen wrote: (all three of us had to sign letters declaring that we would not use these fish in ANY commercial fashion for gain or profit)

But if yours happen to breed, and you give them away to someone *cough*me*cough* and THEY sell them off.... it's okay! You didn't use YOURS for commercial gain or profit, but I didn't sign any such statement.

Seems like my destiny is all worked out! Thanks @Ltygress, I don't know what I'd do without you!

Cheers, Eric

LMAO!

Congrats on the safe arrival! I too use the grapevine wood. But initially found the same problem looks very unsightly plus I wasn't so sure it was good for them. So I removed it. I recently bought some and use with bark taken off. Doesn't go as bad as it does with bark on. Looks very nice in the tank too. Excuse the can of larger in pic. ;) with the recent weather and water changes I polished that off too

Teresa, your grapevine looks like it's sandblasted and possibly oven-dried. That's how most companies (which I know) remove the bark and treat the wood. My grapevine was taken straight out of a vineyard, literally, at the time when an entire vineyard was torn out for replanting new vines. Even though it's been in the sun for several months during the winter, spring and early summer, it's horrendously slimy. I've since removed my grapevine so as to not risk these precious fish, and I'll let the grapevine age more in the 100-110F summer sun. Maybe I'll try it again in my tanks in the autumn.

Cheers, Eric

The one I originally used was bone dry throughout, still went slimy. One of the reasons I moved it when my group were very young.

Dang, these L397 are hungry buggers and some are darn-right mean. These guys (along with the Peckoltia compta) are eating an entire (4-5 inch long) zucchini fruit (peeled) in less than 48 hours, not to mention about 1/3 of a medium-sized (5-6 inch long) sweet potato and a steamed clam on the half shell in the same time!

New Panaqolus sp. L397 feasting on raw zucchini




Panaqolus L397 juveniles eating steamed clams




A few of them are trying to stake out territories, even at their small size:

Aggressive behavior in juvenile Panaqolus sp. L397



I was trying to keep the tank bottom somewhat open so that I could easily capture the fish at the end of the week for delivery to the other owners, but after seeing this, more wood went into the tank. Now there's 3 caves, 5-6 bamboo pipes, and 5 pieces of wood.

Cheers, Eric

Here's the final tank setup for these fish. Wanted more rocks and wood, but tank floor is getting crowded. Also, one piece of wood just won't sink (left side, top (obviously))! I'm going to stop decorating for now and just let the plecos grow.
Will decide later about tetras, dwarf cichlids or other upper-water tankmates (from here: Cichlid tankmates for Peckoltia compta and Panaqolus L397?).

Cheers, Eric