PlanetCatfish.com

I will be visiting Ghana next week, and was hoping to maybe bring a few Synodontis home with me. If anyone has done this before, I would love some pointers and tips for it.

Hey, mate! I cannot help you directly but I recall seeing at least several informative threads on here on the subject, like

http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... hp?t=35509

http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... hp?t=35114

http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... hp?t=16903

Oh thank you Victor for posting this information. This thread is so timely for me - There is a chance that I will be traveling from the USA to the UK this summer, and if I do, you can be dang sure (I'd like to use stronger words, but I'm trying to be respectful to younger members) that I'll do everything in my power to bring some fish back with me. So I'll need to learn not only how to transport the fish within country, but also internationally. I read all three of those threads and they are very helpful.

The potential difference between my interest and this thread (if I understand the intent of the OP) may be that this thread sounds like it is asking about exporting and importing wild caught fish, whereas I would be buying pet fish from a store and bringing them home with me. I imagine that most of the same rules will apply, but I hope that the international restrictions on transporting and inspecting tropical fish carried between the UK and USA will easier to fulfill than would be the capture and export of wild spp.

As long as it doesn't distract from the OP of this thread (and hopefully it answers some of the OP's questions), I would appreciate any instructions people can offer who have personal experience with this. If the answers I need take us too far-afield from the OP, I'd prefer to set up a new thread to get more info. Thanks in advance!

Cheers, bekateen

There is no difference whether you caught them or purchased them in a store to USFWS.

Technically, anything imported into the country would require the importer to have a permit from USFWS. The fish would have to go through a U.S. customs entry point to be inspected and approved for import.

All that being said, I spoke with someone recently who travels regularly to Africa and comes back with cichlids. Appears that if the number of fish is less than 9, US Customs does not seem to care about entry permits. He has been bringing back fish this way for many years.

Never tried it myself and you may be doing this at your own risk. What works for one person may not work for the next.

Andy

In that case Eric, if you do come to the UK, and can take some back with you, I'll have to put you in contact with the guy i got my L397s from. I've looked into exporting myself, the basic rules are you need a licence from this end but for which you dont have to pay, I'll check it out again and let you know more.

Thanks Teresa. Just PM me with the info.
Cheers, bekateen

I have a trio of F1 L397 for you Eric.

Jools

That's really cool Jools, and now Eric doesn't have to go through the processes of trying to get them to the US. I'm sure he will be extremely happy when he checks in.
Edit. Congratulations Eric, that's another one to cross off your wishlist.

Thank you Jools! That's wonderful. I'll be sure to have a new 75gal tank up and running long before my trip!

Cheers, bekateen

For anyone from the USA visiting the UK for this weekend's Catfish Study Group convention, if you plan to bring fish back to the USA, here is some information I have collected from government agencies in the last two weeks about travel from the UK to the USA with live fish. As you read it, please understand that I was investigating for myself, for a trip later in the year, and since I would be reentering the USA through San Francisco, CA (SFO airport), some of the details are just for SFO; if you will be entering at a different airport, the specifics (esp. with regard to USFWS inspectors) will differ from city to city: Also, since this is for a summer trip of mine, alas I will not be seeing any of you at the CSG meeting. But hopefully some of you will find this helpful:

• Starting in the UK, I’ve contacted the Fish Health Inspectorate (https://www.gov.uk/government/groups/fi ... spectorate). They wrote the following:
  • “There are no export controls for England. Therefore you can take these tropical fish from England to USA without any documentation or approval from us; especially if you already have approval from the US Fish and Wildlife Service.”
• Coming to the USA, I received this from the US Fish & Wildlife Service (USFWS) Law Enforcement Office:
  • The USFWS requires no permit to transport personal pet tropical fish into the USA, as long as the fish are not on an import ban species list. An employee at the FWS Law Enforcement Office in Sacramento referred me to the Electronic Code of Federal Regulations (e-CFR data is current as of February 23, 2016), Title 50 → Chapter I → Subchapter B → Part 14 → Subpart I → §14.91, parts (C)5 and (C)6 to clarify that policy (link is here).
  • To be defined as "personal use" (not commercial), you should limit your number of fish to SEVEN OR LESS of the same species. Some people have told me that in the Chicago area, officials exercise an informal "rule of nine" (meaning that if you have nine or less, you're safe and considered not commercial), but that interpretation is not supported by the printed policy: From this link:

    What is “commercial”?
    Commercial means related to the offering for sale or resale, purchase, trade, barter, or the actual or intended transfer in the pursuit of gain or profit, of any item of wildlife and includes the use of any wildlife article as an exhibit for the purpose of soliciting sales, without regard to quantity or weight. There is a presumption that eight or more similar unused items are for commercial use. (emphasis added by me) The Service or the importer/exporter may rebut this presumption based upon the particular facts and circumstances of each case (50 CFR 14.4)

  • That office recommended that I contact the local airport USFWS inspector’s office to find out HOW I legally arrive in the US and get out of the airport with my fish. That step is here:
• From the US Fish & Wildlife Service (USFWS) Inspector's Office in San Francisco: “In order to import your fish into the US you will need to do the following:
  • Provide 48 hour notice to USFWS prior to leaving/arriving at SFO. If you are arriving at a different port contact that port well in advance to ensure you follow their specific protocol. If you are arriving on a Monday, please provide notice on the preceding Thursday. Email the following list of information to the inspectors operating that entry (note from me: If you are entering through SFO, I can give you the actual names and emails, but otherwise, I will leave their names out of this generic letter):
    • Name
    • Contact Information (Phone + email + address)
    • Airline & Flight #, or Air Way Bill # if flying as cargo
    • Estimated arrival/departure time
    • Scientific name(s) and quantity of pet(s) that will be traveling (genus & type #)
    There is a difference between hand carrying on a flight and flying as cargo. Hand carrying typically involves no inspection fees. However, if you bring your animals as cargo (which may be required by the airline) then there will be an inspection fee of 93$ for a live non-commercial shipment. If your import is after hours you may be charged overtime fees if an inspector chooses to inspect the shipment (overtime fees are 105$ plus an additional $53/hr after the first two hours). Be aware that your animals may be delayed/held for inspection by customs, so plan accordingly if you have a connecting flight.
  • Declare your animals to USFWS, while this just has to happen prior to import/export, the sooner you declare the better (a week or so in advance is good), as it will allow for time to fix any errors to ensure your animals can travel legally. While this can be done using the paper declaration system using form 3-177 (http://www.fws.gov/le/declaration-form-3-177.html), it is faster and preferred to use the online filing system: https://edecs.fws.gov/edecshome.cfm. Additionally, using edecs allows you to pay inspection fees (if applicable) online using your credit card. Otherwise you will need to send a check to our office, or contact us to arrange to pay with credit card, we do not accept cash payments.
    • Document package: When you submit your declaration you will need to provide a document package consisting of the following:
      • A copy of the air waybill (if you fly them as cargo);
      • An invoice-type document that lists your name/address and your friend's name/address, the species of fish (genus + #), the number of fish, the country of origin for the fish & if the fish were wild caught or captive raised;
      • Any health certificates/other permits that are required for the shipment This document package can either be emailed to all of the email addresses listed in step #1, or it can be uploaded to the edecs website.
  • On the day of import/export:
    • Follow the inspector’s instructions regarding where and when to meet for an inspection if one is required. Be aware that imports/exports on a weekend or before/after normal business hours may be subject to overtime inspection fees.
• From the Transportation Security Administration (TSA), regarding the legality of carrying fish in water-filled containers onto passenger planes:
  • “Live fish must be transported in a clear, plastic, spill proof container. In this case, the container may be larger than 3.4 ounces. A Transportation Security Officer will visually inspect your live fish at the checkpoint. Even if an item is generally permitted, it may be subject to additional screening or not allowed through the checkpoint if it triggers an alarm during the screening process, appears to have been tampered with, or poses other security concerns. The final decision rests with TSA on whether to allow any items on the plane..” (https://apps.tsa.dhs.gov/mytsa/cib_resu ... earch=fish)
• According to the USFWS, I also needed to contact the US Customs & Border Protection (CBP) Office and CBP Agriculture, to determine what requirements they have for importing live fish. This is what CBP said by email, and CBP Agriculture said over the phone:
  • "Thank you for contacting the U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) INFO Center. CBP does not have any restrictions on live fish. We refer those imports to US Fish & Wildlife. It would be good to contact US Fish & Wildlife at the airport where you will first re-enter the US for their local procedures."
  • The person answering the phone at the CBP Agriculture office said that CBP Agriculture was only concerned and involved if the imported fish are koi, goldfish, or tench. Otherwise, the CBP Agriculture office said that FWS was responsible for importing any other species of fish.
  • The reason why these fish are singled out is that they are on a list of fish vulnerable to Spring viremia of carp (SVC). Acording to the USDA APHIS office (read about this here):

    USDA Guide Sheet for Live Finfish Imports wrote:Live finfish of most species may be imported into the United States without import requirements from USDA. However, 8 species of fish that are susceptible to the disease Spring viremia of carp (SVC) have recently come under USDA oversight. These species are: common carp, including koi carp (Cyprinus carpio), goldfish (Carassius auratus), grass carp (Ctenopharyngodon idellus), silver carp (Hypophthalmichthys molitrix), bighead carp (Aristichthys nobilis), Crucian carp (Carassius carassius), tench (Tinca tinca), and sheatfish (Silurus glanis).
    
    New regulations have been developed for the importation of live fish and their gametes (eggs and milt) from these species. The regulations pertain to commercial shipments and to fish brought in to the US as personal baggage.
    
    Live fish of these species may continue to be imported, provided they are accompanied by a USDA import permit and a veterinary health certificate issued by a full-time veterinary officer or Competent Authority of the National Government of the exporting country.

  • In other words, if your fish aren't on that list, you do not need a veterinarian's certificate of health or a USDA APHIS import permit approved in advance.

I also contacted one airline, who told me their policy is to ban carrying live fish on passenger planes, and they recommended I contact a pet cargo service, specifically JCS Livestock, related to JamesCargo.com. So, I contacted them, and here is our actual conversation:

I wrote:I am interested in transporting a small number (5-10) of small (3-6" long) tropical fish pets. These are my personal pets. I want to bring them back with me from the UK to the USA.

JCS Livestock wrote:Good afternoon. Thank you for your email. We are happy to quote this for you but we would really need to make you aware that the fatality rate in transit, for fish is quite high. Please advise if you wish for me to proceed with a quote for you. (emphasis added by me - they did not print this email in red font, LOL)

Oh, yeah... Did they just say that?!? And how much do you think was their price quote for shipping? Almost GBP £600!

Hopefully that helps you. The take-home message is book your flights on airlines that allow you to carry on live fish, and that will greatly simplify and cheapen the legal importation of pet/hobby fish from the UK to the USA.

One more piece of advice I've received informally - If you do travel with live fish in your carry-on bags, it's an excellent idea to print out paper copies of all the details and policies mentioned above, and place copies in the carry-on luggage with the fish. That way, if you encounter an airport or airline worker who is unfamiliar with the policies, you can provide them printed information. Importantly though, the TSA website explicitly states that ultimately it is up to the judgment of the TSA security professionals to permit or reject the fish, so even with the policy you are not guaranteed smooth sailing.

I am still waiting to hear from Centre for Environment Fisheries and Aquaculture Science (CEFAS) in the UK.

If you are aware of any agencies I've overlooked, please let me know. I'll investigate and add them to this list.

Finally, if you do bring back any fish this month, or before this summer, please PM me and describe your experience, because I am earnest to bring fish back with me this summer, and I want to ensure a safe and successful (and legal) transport.

Cheers, bekateen

P.S. Links to USFWS pages on rules and definition of commercial are updated 2022/03/24. The old link for the definition led to a pdf document here: https://www.fws.gov/le/pdf/3-200-3a.pdf. I do not know the current disposition of this document, but the same info is found on the links I updated above.

It should be noted that if you carry on your fish in your carry on bag the airline will have no idea you are carrying fish. The airlines do not inspect bags.

Now, if you come on with a styrofoam cooler with "LIVE FISH" stickers on the side that may be another story.

Andy

Narwhal72 wrote:It should be noted that if you carry on your fish in your carry on bag the airline will have no idea you are carrying fish. The airlines do not inspect bags.

Now, if you come on with a styrofoam cooler with "LIVE FISH" stickers on the side that may be another story.

LOL. Thank you, Andy. Yes I know that's the routine in the USA, and I'm assuming it is too in the UK. I guess I just hate the idea of going to so much effort to "do it right," only to then end up smuggling the fish on board the plane after all.

I am a person who lives by the motto, "If you don't ever lie to people, you never need to worry about what story you told them."

Cheers, Eric

It is also important to note that by "carry-on bags" you mean those going in the hold that form part of your personal baggage allowance. Some usages of the term specifically means bags that you take into the cabin which you clearly can't do as they hopefully contain liquids!

Jools

Jools wrote:It is also important to note that by "carry-on bags" you mean those going in the hold that form part of your personal baggage allowance. Some usages of the term specifically means bags that you take into the cabin which you clearly can't do as they hopefully contain liquids!

Jools

Two points here:

(1) To your specific comment and with regard to all the policies listed above, yes, the authorities are using the term "carry-on" to mean any luggage going onto a passenger plane, whether stowed into the cargo hold of the passenger plane (called "checked" bags in the USA) or brought into the passenger cabin and placed under your seat or in an overhead compartment (called "carry-on" bags in the more strict sense of the usage as you mentioned).

(2) The airline I spoke to bans live fish in all baggage brought onto passenger planes - both "checked" bags and "carry-on" bags.

As for my intentions, I am thinking that I need to carry my fish with me personally through airport security and into the passenger cabin, in a small suitcase that would be placed under my feet or in an overhead compartment. I am operating under the assumption that the suitcases and bags which get "checked" into the cargo hold of the passenger plane would not be treated safely for transporting fish - either during loading and unloading by airport employees or more detrimentally within the plane's cargo area climactically: perhaps not well temperature controlled? I don't know, just speculating, as I haven't traveled internationally in decades. Please correct me if I'm wrong, if it is safe (for the fish) to transport fish in the cargo hold of the plane.

Yes, the bags contain liquid (lol), but presumably I package them in a leak-proof container, as per the regulations of our TSA. Can't a few either soft-sided bags or rigid clear plastic containers be brought on board safely?

Are modern passenger plane cargo holds climactically controlled? Temperature, atmospheric pressure?

Heck, I was planning on donating or tossing some of my clothing on the last day of my journey, so as to make "room" inside my luggage for the fish bags! Really - what's more important? If I take old clothes which I barely fit into, or which are wearing out, and then leave them behind? I'm doing my house a favor - I'm cleaning out my closet, right?!?
Thanks, Eric

You can't take fish through airport security, (>100ml liquid rule) so they need to go in the hold. I've used poly boxes wrapped in towels in the past for hold luggage - a hard shell suitcase is better.

Jools

Jools wrote:You can't take fish through airport security, (>100ml liquid rule) so they need to go in the hold. I've used poly boxes wrapped in towels in the past for hold luggage - a hard shell suitcase is better.

Okay, if that is sufficient.

(As also shown in the link I posted above) I was told that in the USA, the TSA will waive the >100ml liquid rule on passenger planes as long as the TSA agent can see the live fish swimming inside the fluid: If a fish can survive inside, then by definition the fluid inside must be harmless.

I haven't found out yet the name of the agency in the UK that is the equivalent to America's TSA airport security, so I haven't received a parallel answer from your side of the pond.

Thanks Jools. This is the kind of info I need to prepare for my trip. I don't own a hard-sided suitcase, but I can certainly get one.

Cheers, Eric

https://www.gov.uk/hand-luggage-restrictions/overview

Basically, it's not a thing. When a human isn't sure a computer will say no. Do try it and let me know how you get on. Actually, don't there is a high risk it will end badly for the fish and that's important.

Jools

Jools wrote:https://www.gov.uk/hand-luggage-restrictions/overview

Basically, it's not a thing. When a human isn't sure a computer will say no. Do try it and let me know how you get on. Actually, don't there is a high risk it will end badly for the fish and that's important.

Good enough for me. I'm not the type of person who, after being warned that fire causes tissue damage, needs to actually put their hand in a flame to see if it burns. Tell me it hurts, show me other people with burn scars, and I can live with that, at least until I have opportunity to test the theory without any risk to living things. And as you say, the fish's welfare is priority (if I believed for a minute that I can't get the fish safely back to the USA, I wouldn't even entertain the idea of trying).

Thanks Jools.

So you can take a 50ml bottle of Seachem Prime and a small syringe. And your water has to be max 100ml in a resealable clear plastic bag approx 20cm x 20cm.

So just before security, empty most of the water out of the bag so there's just 100ml left to cover the fish. Get through security, then refill the bag with warm water from the public conveniences, plus a squirt of Prime.

Just kidding ;)

Mol_PMB wrote:So you can take a 50ml bottle of Seachem Prime and a small syringe. And your water has to be max 100ml in a resealable clear plastic bag approx 20cm x 20cm.

So just before security, empty most of the water out of the bag so there's just 100ml left to cover the fish. Get through security, then refill the bag with warm water from the public conveniences, plus a squirt of Prime.

I understand the "just kidding" part.

But to tell you my experience traveling in the USA, the airport security informed me a few years ago that it's not just the volume of fluid IN the container now, it's the max volume of fluid held by the container. I tried to travel with a 4 ounce bottle of shampoo. The bottle was half empty. The TSA made me discard it at the security gate. For obvious reasons - if you were to sneak two different and mixable liquids onto a plane, then combine them in separate larger container, that could create a dangerous substance. I fully understand their rule and I willingly discarded my shampoo. No great loss for me, and lesson learned.