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Hi All,
At a stocklist I saw some Corydoras sichry. After looking at google I wasn't able to identify the species, not many links were given. Does anyone know this species and his accurated name? What kind of cory is it? At the web I fount links to " Corydoras sichry luminoso".

Possibles picture of the fish



Best regards,
Erik

Hi Erik,

Yes there is a species called . Your source simply messed up the spelling of the name. The link I gave you has more information.

Your photo is labeled "possible" picture. I'm guessing that's not from the stocklist. But it looks right to me.

Cheers, Eric

Hi,

sorry, but I have to contradict.
The picture above shows C 53 which IMHO is not identical to C. sychri which is not a saddle nosed cory like C 53.
The local fishermen around Iquitos call them C. sychri "luminoso" to distinguish them from the "ordinary" much cheaper C. sychri.

In the area around Iquitos you can find three species with same colour pattern:
short nose: C. atropersonatus
(semi) long nose: C. sychri
(long) saddle nose: C 53

In the DB here I think only pictures 5 and 6 really show C. sychri, the others most probably C 53.

Cheers,

Thank you Karsten, for the clarification. I was unfamiliar with the distinction, and I was accepting the saddle-nose in the photo based on this info from the sychri CLOG:

CLOG wrote:Often confused with C97. In C. sychri the head shape is longer, with a distinct angular profile from dorsal to top of head above the eye and then down to the snout. Some specimens may even show a curve to the snout, making it more of a saddle shape.

Based on your info, the photo may not be the typical sychri. This presses the question about the stocklist which Erik has - it mentions sychri, not sychri luminoso. In that case, it's probably the typical sychri.

Cheers, Eric

Hi Karsten and Eric,
Thank you very much for the information. I will contact the seller if they knew how the locals called the fish they are offering.

The photo is not a picture of the fish the seller offered. Just a picture from the internet i found under C. Sichry

Hi All, I've got a picture of the seller. for me it's clear that this is not a longnose sychri, but witch one is it? The "normal" C. sychri?


source: Ruinemans

There's a very close resemblance to C53 and C97 but in regards to the fish in this picture i would say it's a C97. As in the C53 the nose profile and up to where the dorsal fin starts is different and coverage of the darker area is slightly different in the clog pages.

As I look more at the photo above and compare it to the photos for and , and considering what Karsten stated above (that only the last two photos on the CLOG page are actually sychri), then I would conclude this isn't C053, which has spotted bands on the caudal fin like , as seen in the C053 CLOG photos and photos of C053 on Corydorasworld.com. By contrast, this fish appears to have a hyaline (unpigmented) caudal fin.

As to whether it is sychri or C097, there I am totally confused. On this website, the CLOGs for C097 and sychri state that sychri has a longer snout than C097, sometimes even saddle shaped in sychri. On Corydorasworld.com, the species description for C097 states that it is known in the trade as Corydoras sychri 'Long-nose'. Obviously, these two descriptions are conflicting as they can't both be correct at the same time - they are making opposing claims as to which has the longer nose.

And then there's the info from Karsten about C053, that this form is known as C. sychri "luminoso;" this may well be, but it doesn't address the confusion between C097 and sychri, and it doesn't address the relationship between C053 and C097, if both are saddle-nosed fish.

I'll leave this for the experts to clarify. @coryman? @kamas88? What do you folks think?


Cheers, Eric

Went for C97 as i put corydoras sichry in the quick find with a no results found result. See if anyone else has a I'd.

Just noted the incorrect spelling.

Hi Eric,

this is not easy to answer.
The C number C 97 was issued for a long-snouted by-catch of C. atropersonatus which looks pretty much like the picture of Ruinemans (although the snout shape is not perfectly visible).
However, I don't know the exact background what made Hans believe that C 97 is not C. sychri (which is explicitly mentioned in DATZ magazine). If I remember right there was some discussion in the past which Cory species is exactly C. sychri.
I don't see any relevant difference between the HT of C. sychri and the picture of C 97 in the DATZ.

Chees,

Thanks Karsten,

Yes, I can envision the scenario where L097 is called a long-nosed atropersonatus, but that's pretty much what sychri looks like - a long-nosed atropersonatus. And if I recall correctly, don't all of these come from approximately the same area? I mean, these aren't simply being distinguished by locale, right?

It's situations like this that make me wish the genetics of these fish were better defined. Conspicuously, sychri was absent from the big corydoras analysis that examined mimicry among the spp. and some of the C numbers... So no help there.

Thanks for the input.

Cheers, Eric

And this is why it's always important to remind ourselves that C, CW, L, and LDA numbers are not species; they are simply unique morphotypes collected from locations where similar-looking defined species are not known to occur.

And also that locals catching fish may have names for fish they catch for aquatic industry adding more into the confusion.

pleconut wrote:And also that locals catching fish may have names for fish they catch for aquatic industry adding more into the confusion.

Indeed.

Agreed I'd think the numbering would occur at higher levels but Erik 82 made reference to the locals (fisherman?) in his second post so it is possible it may have some influence.

Hi Eric,

bekateen wrote:And if I recall correctly, don't all of these come from approximately the same area? I mean, these aren't simply being distinguished by locale, right?

yes, they all come from the area around Iquitos.
The indicated type location of C. sychri is of no use, but I think they usually come from Rio Nanay.

I have seen C. atropersonatus and C. sychri (or C 97) in big quantities at Stringray Aquarium etc., always in separated tanks. There is certainly a chance that there are single contaminants but the fishermen do distinguish, but they don't know always the correct names.
But C 53 was a seldom and rather expensive cory there (3-4 USD if I remember right, i.e. ~10 times more than ordinary corys).

Cheers,

Personally I think thr RA picture is C. atropersonatus
I have posted an image of all 4 species.
The spotting in both C. atropersonatus and C97 are similar well defined rounded well spaced spots, in C. sychri and C53 the marking are more like small irregular blotches and tend to be more compacted.

Ian

C. atropersonatus
Image courtesy Ian Fuller & Corydorasworld.com


C97
Image courtesy Ian Fuller & Corydorasworld.com


C. sychri
Image courtesy Ian Fuller & Corydorasworld.com


C53
mage courtesy Hans-Georg Evers & Corydorasworld.com

Coryman wrote:Personally I think thr RA picture is C. atropersonatus... The spotting in both C. atropersonatus and C97 are similar well defined rounded well spaced spots, in C. sychri and C53 the marking are more like small irregular blotches and tend to be more compacted.

In this case, the challenges for me are (1) the length of the snout, which is influenced by camera angle and the way the fish is using its mouth at the time of photography, and (2) interpreting how important species variability is with regard to coloration.

I interpreted the Ruinemans photo as showing a fish with a medium-long length snout, not a short snout, although I can easily imagine this being a short-snouted fish too if the camera angle is right. For example, in a previous thread I posted two photos of the same fish (C141) and the snout length differs so much the photos appear to show two totally different fish: Not Corydoras agassizii? Is it C. schwartzi?.

And with regards to the spotting, I do see the greater spacing between spots that Ian is referencing. But then I interpret the spots in the Ruinemans photo as being more diffuse or vague in their borders, rather than "well-defined" as Ian mentions for atropersonatus and C097. Moreover, Ian's photo of C097 shows one fish (bottom center) which to my eye is virtually indistinguishable in its spotting from Ian's photo of sychri. And the CLOG for sychri states that we should "always allow for a certain amount of variability" in the coloration / spotting pattern of sychri.

I am certainly unable to identify definitively this fish without more info.

Cheers,
Eric

Hi,

bekateen wrote:I interpreted the Ruinemans photo as showing a fish with a medium-long length snout, not a short snout, although I can easily imagine this being a short-snouted fish too if the camera angle is right.

same with me, the snout shape is difficult to see; could also be C. atropersonatus but the pattern would be odd then...

@Ian:
I do agree wrt the pattern of C 53, I have never seen any specimen with "similar well defined rounded well spaced spots".
The picture in the DATZ of the introduction of C 97 shows a cory with few faint "well spaced spots".

But I don't see any differences in pattern between C 97 vs. the picture and first description of C. sychri and the photographs of the holotype. They also show a cory with "well spaced spots", I would even say that the pattern is closer to "your" C 97 than "your" C. sychri.
As it can be also seen in your picture there is quite a bit of variance in pattern.

C. atropersonatus (as we define it) is certainly very variable wrt pattern.
These two pics show a bit the pattern variance, but there are certainly more extreme cases:



By the way "our" C. atropersonatus deviates from the first description of the species (from Ecuador) which should have:

Dorsal fin with dark brown to black pigment at its base. One or two rows of relatively thin, more or less horizontal dark bands on dorsal fin; pigment of these rows confined to fin rays.

Afaik our C. atropersonatus usually don't come from Rio Tigre system.
However, I tend to believe that "ours" is a location variant of the same species.

Cheers,

kamas88 wrote:By the way "our" C. atropersonatus deviates from the first description of the species (from Ecuador) which should have:

Dorsal fin with dark brown to black pigment at its base. One or two rows of relatively thin, more or less horizontal dark bands on dorsal fin; pigment of these rows confined to fin rays.

On the CLOG page, images 3, 7, and 10 show the two parallel, roughly horizontal (somewhat downward sloping towards the rear) lines, on the dorsal fins (only on the rays), as you mention in the species description; and there maybe just a hint of them in image 13 as well.

Cheers,
Eric

Hi All,
THanks for sharing the information about these different species. Since a week a group of 10 fishes swims in my tank. If i refere to the picture above, and compare them with my photo's below I woud say they are not C. atropersonatus. With the posted pictures I personal think it may be the C. sychri. What do you think?

That nose is longer than I expect for atropersonatus. So I'm again leaning towards sychri.

Cheers, Eric

Hi,

definitely no C. atropersonatus, this is what I consider to be C. sychri.

Cheers,
Karsten