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Hello, I am not a catfish owner. Atm I have a cherry shrimp / Ramhorns snail tank. My tank is now full of seed shrimp and cyclops. I thinking of getting a fish as safe as possible for mh shrimps who loves to eat these critter.
LFS choices is celectial danio, cory pygmy and oto arnoldi. My heart after watching videos says PYGMYS but i have 2 questions before:
1. Is Cyclops and Seed shrimps part of their diet (adult or fry)?
2. Can they be hurt bymy lava rock?

My tank: Running over a year, substatre is basalt gravel but not scratchy and I can remove snails if needed.
http://s1061.photobucket.com/user/velis ... sort=3&o=4

Thank you

P.S. I was told that arnoldi oto is not going to be interested in these critters. (I know its the Callichrhyidae section here so if I must start a new topic I wll)

The pygmy cory will eat tiny organisms as part of their diet - they certainly eat Cyclops & would eat anything small enough to fit in their little mouths. They shouldn't be affected by lava rock as long as you have sand substrate. Lava rock probably wouldn't be great with oto's

Thank you for all the informations.
I read in the fish profiles section (e-catalog) that corydoras pygmaeus can also be housed in a gravel substrate tank. I could have removed the rock or cover it with moss if needed but im too rookie to think of changing the substrate anyhow.

I agree with Richard B. - all corys like sand/mud/dirt substrate because they like to dig - lava rock is OK as long as there's plenty of sand too. They like moss, but the important thing here is corys like to dig. That's there natural feeding place.

As for what they'll eat; they'll eat anything they run across that will fit in their mouths (which are not very big, especially pygmy cory).

Hi all,

VelcroWY wrote:I agree with Richard B. - all corys like sand/mud/dirt substrate because they like to dig - lava rock is OK as long as there's plenty of sand too. They like moss, but the important thing here is corys like to dig. That's there natural feeding place.

As for what they'll eat; they'll eat anything they run across that will fit in their mouths (which are not very big, especially pygmy cory).

Corydoras pygmaeus

likes really small food items, they go mad for micro-worms. I've always kept mine on sand, but they mainly forage across dead leaves, moss and plant leaves, rather than the sand itself.

Have a look a these threads <"http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... us#p280779"> & <"http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... hp?t=35069">.

Of the small

Corydoras

spp. I've kept,

Corydoras hastatus

behave in a similar manner to C. pygmaeus, but

Corydoras habrosus

behaves much more like a bigger Corydoras and spends time on the substrate sand sifting.

cheers Darrel

I am pretty certain pygmy corys won't eat seed shrimp because larger corys I have didn't eat them. Corys don't eat any live shrimp, even baby cherry shrimp. I don't know about Cyclops, never had them.
Pygmy corys spend their time in mid water so substrate is not an issue as much but they eat from the substrate like any other corys and would prefer to sift through sand.
But I have a big bunch of corys in a small gravel substrate tank and their barbels are as long as they can be. I can even say extremely long despite that they can't sift through, so as long as the tank is healthy, I'd go for it without worrying.

Thank you for your answers. Pygmys not going after seed shrimp is a big drawback.
At the moment Im trying to soften the water and I temporarily added a dozen of baby guppies to keep the population controled. I think their polulation is not eliminated because they all vanished within 20 mins after the babies got into the tank. I like them cleaning my substrate. Im trying to think how it could work. Thanks once more.

An update and 2 questions. My aquarium now has 6 beautiful pygmy corys. I removed quickly the guppies after some attacks and went for iriatherina. My male was very aggressive I charged myself with courage and become a catfish owner and give the rainbot couple away. I kept gravel and covered 1 remain lava rock with thick phoenix moss. All barbels look OK. Cyclops and seed shrimp are reduced but i cant see my corys dancing like crazy trying to grab any of them.

A. The time I had both iriatherina and corys everything seemed nice. After I gave away the rainbows, corys seems to enjoy almost all bottom I offered them. Before that I couldnt tell what was happening because I was crashing pellets so it could fit rainbows throat.
Now I notice that every day that goes by my pygmys reach lesser and lesser the pellets or bloodworms I offer them. They spend more and more time hiding/laying on corymbosa leaves. They also seem to be afraid of me. They prefer foraging the backglass and corymbosa they chose as their "home".

The water parameters seem nice (ph:7, kh:4,5 gh:5,5 NO3:10). Fish dont look starved and their colour seems nice. Their best time is when i clean my filter.

If they are lazy due to happiness I can live with that . If they are stress-unsafe I want to change it. But how can I tell?

I am thinking of 2 things.
1. buy more pygmies.
2. temporarily buy 1-2 or more small fish (something like a tetra, rasbora or borara). If this solves it then try to find the best suitable tankmate.

B. I have bought some inert quartz sand and I am trying to find some free time to replace gravel. Is there anything special I should keep my eyes on?

Thanks

I cannot answer your question to sand, but to my experience, cyclops are too fast and seed shrimps have too good armor to make good prey. At least that was the case for my c.hastatus. They can only rarely pick on an unsuspecting one, but the reduction of their ssightings would be due to them hiding from a potential predator.
Also, yes, they would like it in larger numbers, so that MIGHT help. They were certainly more active when I put in 4 more to the original group of 4(cuz they were sold out the first time except 4), but they indeed are very shy and they do prefer to feed when I wasnt in front of them. Dither fish might help, but boboras and tetras also arent the boldest fish and may be stressed from being alone, so only use dither fish if u have a large enough tank to support both shoals.
PS:All experience based on C.Hastatus not C.Pygmaeus, but they are VERY similar
PPS:Wow it seems the tank is similar to dimension of my current RCS tank, and I am planning to add pygmies-is it recommendable?

Thanks for all info.

Q: is this what you mean when you say dither fish? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dither_fish . It says something about tetras too.


So far shrimp and shrimp babies are completely fine. Actually its the shrimps that harass the cory. During feeding time corys used to lay on the gravel next to the pellets and grab some bites every now and then. Shrimp would step on them or try to clean them. Harmless but unintentionaly a bit annoying. So an over populated bottom might be a minus.
Im still trying to figure it out. So I dont want to disincourage you. Lots of people keeps them with great success.

Thanks!!! I will add pygmy cories soon.
And ditherfish means more outgoing and active fish used bring shier fish from the shadows. Like adding unshy and tough fish like danios(not recommned with shrimps though-even CPDs in quite a few cases) to know that its safer for other fish to emerge. And if u want the shrimps distracted, more driftwood and plants would be better, but cories(even mid water lovers like pygmies need a bit of bottom space so, attach moss to driftwood for some shrimp shelter.

Thanks again. I wish your project goes well.

I ve changed the decoration and things look a bit better. I ve opened up so room for the feeding area so it would be less crowded. I changed position a piece sponge I keep to stock biology for the substrate change im planning. It keeps moving and propably scared them a few times.

I will try to study more about ditherfishes. I cant think of a shrimp-safe fish to be ditherfish too. I thought borara are bold enough . So I will propably try this after some other actions I had in mind.

So:
1. Change substrate.
2. Add Floating plants.
3. Reduce shrimp population.
4. Gradually add more pygmys. I think 10-12 total should be enough to say that shoaling is the issue is the issue or not.

Beware in changing substrate, since it might unbalance the ecosystem. And as for boboras as dither fish, I find them rather shy, but it might be different for others.

Right now ending up with an inmature is what concerns the most. I trying to find as much info as possible.

2nd biggest concern is that if corys are truly stressed and afraid of me, they are really going have to have a lot of pressure...

If the corys are afraid of you, so that they dart into crannies whenever you approach, you should
1.Reduce approaching as much as possible
2.Provide lots of shelter
3.Provide a larger tank
4.Give them back to the LFS-if cories look unhealthy, pale and stressed because of your approaching(make sure that is the reason), give away
5.Let them get used to you by waiting still fro them to reemerge-this worked for me for dwarf corydoras and tetras.
If boboras happens to be a bolder fish than i recon them to be, and not be scared when you come at them, it might be a choice. Also, new cories might bolder than the original ones, so that might help.

Today I changed the substrate. I started by removing gradually all the plants. The fewer the plants the more fish were joining the school. I left them stay in the bare tank and they were 90% swimming 10% laying. They dint seem to b afraid of me when they were all 6 together.

Nice! It seems that the corydoras have fully extablished!

Hi all,

AresGr wrote:The fewer the plants the more fish were joining the school. I left them stay in the bare tank and they were 90% swimming 10% laying. They dint seem to b afraid of me when they were all 6 together.

That is a stress response.

When the fish are happy, and in a non-stressful situation, they will forage, and rest, among the plants, dead leaves (and on the sand) in small groups.

As you've removed the plants (cover) the only "safe" option they have is to cluster together as a shoal.

Lack of cover from above is almost always a stressful situation for small fish, because they are exposed to attack from birds etc.

cheers Darrel

dw1305 wrote:Hi all,

AresGr wrote:The fewer the plants the more fish were joining the school. I left them stay in the bare tank and they were 90% swimming 10% laying. They dint seem to b afraid of me when they were all 6 together.

That is a stress response.

When the fish are happy, and in a non-stressful situation, they will forage, and rest, among the plants, dead leaves (and on the sand) in small groups.

As you've removed the plants (cover) the only "safe" option they have is to cluster together as a shoal.

Lack of cover from above is almost always a stressful situation for small fish, because they are exposed to attack from birds etc.

cheers Darrel

Thank you for the informations. So hard for my rookiness to tell when a fish is happy or not. Thank God today their activity is something very silimat to what you described. Now I know few things of how to observe them.
Zero body count so far but I havent manage to see all 6 fishes at the same time. 5 is the max. I think 1 male is missing. I dont want to do anything to disturb them. I will give it some time.

Do you think 80% of the daytime resting is normal?

Hi all,

AresGr wrote:Thank you for the informations. So hard for my rookiness to tell when a fish is happy or not. Thank God today their activity is something very silimat to what you described. Now I know few things of how to observe them.
Zero body count so far but I havent manage to see all 6 fishes at the same time. 5 is the max. I think 1 male is missing. I dont want to do anything to disturb them. I will give it some time.

Do you think 80% of the daytime resting is normal?

I've owned

Corydoras hastatus

, and , and the C. hastatus and C. pygmaeus spent a lot of time in the plants and leaf litter, C. habrosus spent a lot longer sitting on the substrate. I bought 5 C. habrosus, but they never spawned and I lost them all over ~3 years. I've maintained the other two species since about ~2008.

I'm not sure about the resting, I don't tend to worry too much whether I can see the fish or not. I just have tanks with lots of structure (plants, wood, dead leaves), feed mainly live food and try to keep the water quality high. If I want to try and assess how many small Corydoras (adults or fry of larger species) I've got, I turn the filter off, and then pipette some micro-worms on to a visible area of sand. That should attract them and you can have a bit of a count.

Apologies for the quality of the video, but here is a tank with some C. hastatus (I keep C. pygmaeus in a similar tank and they behave in the same way) trying to avoid the Apistogramma pair and eat some grindal worms.


cheers Darrel

I tried grindals but they showed not interest. MaybeI will just try to contact my LFS. I quess he could info me about what type of food their breeder uses. Its crazy they rather forage leaves than eat frozen bloodworms...

uffff swimming slowly or fast can be good or bad. Only an experience eye can see what is going on.

I came back from work and they are all laying somewhere. Definately a very long day for them yesterday. I will give them as much room and time as possible. I will only approach for feeding...

Thank you both

Um my C.hastsatus like to rest often though.

today I saw all 6 together. They look much happier today. Their behavior looks typical pygmaeus (or dwarf cory) as you described. Thanks to your informations and advises I feel much more confident. Thank you.

My favorite dither fish is an endler. They eat very few fry, even shrimplettes. They are usually near the top, but will swim all over in a shallow tank (most of the standards 55 gallon and under). They reproduce rapidly and if you lose a few to other fish, it's not a big deal. They'll eat almost anything that drops into the tank, especially flakes. Mine also like micro-pellets for bettas and such.

Um dont female endlers get larger though? But a male endler will be a good ditherfish I think. But however, it is not really similar in beahviout to pygmy cories.

1. new rack. Less vibrations,
2. minimum trimming and aquascaping
3. A female betta. She eats the food I hold in my fingers.
4. A new place in the house. No ppl walk by the aquarium now.

Now I know my fish are healthy and have no stress.

Darrel
my Apistogrammas were outcompeting my Hastatus and I was losing Hastaus fry. I separated them and the Hastatus have slowly recovered. Just an observation in my fishroom.

Hi all,

Tetranerd wrote: ↑21 Jan 2018, 01:11 Darrel
my Apistogrammas were outcompeting my Hastatus and I was losing Hastaus fry. I separated them and the Hastatus have slowly recovered. Just an observation in my fishroom.

Thanks for this.

I think you are right and that keeping

Apistogramma

and

Corydoras pygmaeus

/

Corydoras hastatus

leads to increased fry mortality for both catfish and cichlid, presumably because of competition for small live food items.

I keep really weedy tanks, with lots of leaf litter and cover, so I think it is a competition issue, rather than direct predation.

I've been thinking about keeping Corydoras hastatus "dithered" by Threadfin rainbows (

Iriatherina werneri

), as I've had tanks with both species (separately) in the past where they have both produced a big enough trickle of fry to maintain numbers.

Other suggestions would be welcomed.

cheers Darrel

My Hastatus seem to be fine without dithers if the Cory group is large enough. Smaller groups seem to be more sensitive to movement and end up hiding more.
Im guessing Cory fry must be prey items for the Apistos, as the colony stopped producing new babies like they were in the past prior to the Apistos being added. Or the Hastatus were stressed by the more bold Apistos and were not comfortable enough to spawn.
I have noticed the small Cories love to spend time slowly picking thru the area of sand that I usually feed over. I feed in the same corner Each feeding. With the Apistos constantly moving around the tank, I think the Cories felt threatened and did not spend the time feeding and picking at the substrate.

Another thing I have noticed is that the fry will hang on the glass of the tank while they swim to the surface for air. They look like little swimming shrimp. So I know that the Apistos will eagerly eat anything that’s small and moves.

C.Hastatus is still my favorite fish, and not the easiest to find! I’m glad I’ve been lucky enough to find the ones I have after such long searches. And I’m glad they have continued to add little ones along the way.

I hope your colony continues to grow!!!!