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Hi All,

One of my LFS has several (L106), 2" SL, for $15 USD (They were advertised as "Orange seam Peckoltia, L106"). They are very attractive, but I know nothing about them. Temptation to buy is high.

I read the CLOG and searched the forums and I don't see a lot of info on L106, especially with regard to spawning (I did find some posts about sexing though). Can anyone describe their successes with this species? Specifically,

• How difficult are they to keep? How likely are they to die?
• Are they more territorial or aggressive than, for example, a BN or clown pleco?
• Do they have special water or tank requirements? (I'm suspecting that good oxygenation is a premium, good current, rocky tank with hiding places between rocks)
• Has anyone here successfully bred them? (there are no reports on the CLOG page)
• Do they play well with other fish, especially other plecos?

Thanks, Eric

I have never kept them, but they originate from the Orinoco river like Hemiancistrus subviridis, and it turns out they're closely related. I would expect care to be similar.

Yes, I was going to say care is similar to Peckoltia sabaji. I must write s CotM on these!

Jools

Eric- Not sure if this will help or not:

Neotropical Ichthyology, 3(4):543-548, 2005
Copyright © 2005 Sociedade Brasileira de Ictiologia

Hemiancistrus guahiborum, a new suckermouth armored catfish from Southern Venezuela (Siluriformes: Loricariidae)
David C. Werneke*, Jonathan W. Armbruster**, Nathan K. Lujan*, and Donald C. Taphorn***

Hemiancistrus guahiborum, new species, is described from the Orinoco River drainage of Venezuela. Hemiancistrus guahiborum
can be separated from all other Hemiancistrus and all Peckoltia except P. braueri and P. cavatica by having an orange edge
to the dorsal and caudal fins. Hemiancistrus guahiborum can be separated from Peckoltia cavatica and P. braueri by having
the dorsal fin with separated light spots or uniformly colored (vs. with dark spots forming bands) and the sides either solidly
colored or with tan blotches (vs. with dark dorsal saddles).

http://www.auburn.edu/~armbrjw/guahiborum.pdf

Hi TTA,

Thanks for the reference. I did see that and it was a good resource. I was hoping to get personal experiences from hobbyists in this case, you know, where the rubber meets the road.

Cheers, Eric

My experience is that they are a bit more "feisty" than other Hemiancistrus species, but my sample size for that observation is, admittedly, just 1. He/she is among the smaller plecs in with bigger L200, L128, L137 etc. but stakes out certain territories and bullies the others. Small skirmishes, nothing harmful, no torn fins, but loads of personality.

Okay, as a follow up to this thread (Re: What is a good tankmate for Centromochlus perugiae?), I've been waiting a couple of weeks for my LFS to restock their . According to the store owner, a shipment of new fish is expected to arrive in the next 1-3 weeks. In the meantime, I want to be ready so that I can try to pick a good mixed sex group of fish; I probably have only one chance in the foreseeable future to get this right.

Based on what I read above, this species should be similar to other . I presume this concept extends to their anatomy and any abilities we might have to discriminate males from females. I've searched the forums for tips on sexing various Hemiancistrus, and here is what I've found:

Compared to females, males will have

1. wider heads
2. narrower bodies through the midsection
3. smaller, pointed genital papillae (vs. blunt, rounded papillae in females)
4. larger odontodes on the pectoral spines (is this also true on posterior body flank? - I'm not clear if this is really evident on Hemiancistrus; I didn't see much of this in photos on this website)
5. massive pectoral spines, and
6. (...this may not be true, and nobody has specifically stated this in the forum as far as I can find, but...) it is my impression from the photos in the forum (mostly of
   Hemiancistrus subviridis
   ) that males may have longer pectoral spines compared to females, so that when flattened against the body, the pectoral fins of a male extend well past the origin of the pelvic fins, whereas the fins of a female extend only a short distance past the origin of the pelvic fin. But is this just a figment of my imagination?
   
   Finally, compared to males, females may have
7. some yellow pigmentation around their genital papillae, this according to a thread (Sexing catfish, Panaqolus) started by @jac.

I also have to entertain the possibility that these fish will be too small, or in sub-standard condition, making any efforts to sex them questionable. In a previous post (Re: Shopping for plecos question), PlecosAndLoaches wrote:

PlecosAndLoaches wrote:The profile says they grow to 5.9", but I've never seen them bigger than 4".

Also, I noticed that in the original description of the species, the max size collected was only 5" and the mean size collected was 3" (most were less than or equal to 4"). Based on the last shipment of fishes sold through this store, I expect these to be about 2"-2.5" SL. If I consider 3-4" (not 5+") to be more typical of adults in this species, should I expect to be able to sex ANY of these fish if they are only 2"-2.5" long? Or will they just be too small? For some comparison, I found that I could sex my male at only 1.7" when they were in good condition; so I'm hopeful that some sexual differentiation will be evident in a 2" H. guahiborum.

So to summarize all that rambling, can anybody offer any personal experience with sexing these critters? Most importantly,

1. Which of the sexing characters will apply to H. guahiborum? (I suspect the best traits to use are head shape, pectoral spine size, pectoral spine odontodes (if present), and genital papillae, in that order), and
2. Based on fish you've seen, will any or all of these gender-specific traits be visible if the fish are only 2-2.5" SL? If only some traits, which will be evident first?

[/color]
Thanks, Eric

I may have answered a couple of my own questions (and importantly, question #2 in blue). I came across the following article:

Ajiaco-Martínez, R.E., Ramírez-Gil, H., & Arias -Castellanos, J.A. 2012. Fisheries aspects and reproductive biology of Hemiancistrus guahiborum, in a scree in the Bita river, Puerto Carreño - Colombia. Orinoquia, 16(2), 40-51. ISSN 0121-3709.

The paper is written in Portuguese and I am currently working on translating it to English. However, what I did already find is the following:

The size range for mature females was between 4.4 - 9.1 cm SL, with an L50% (estimated average size at gonadal maturity) of 6.4 cm SL. For mature males the sizes ranged between 5 and 12 cm SL, with an L50% at gonadal maturity of 7.5 cm.

I think this answers my question about how big the fish need to be before they can be sexed accurately; they should be sexable by 2" SL.

Another interesting point was:

The gonadosomatic index fluctuated from 0.3 in May to 8.1 in December, but there were no significant differences between the monthly values (P> 0.05) because of the high variability within each month's data.

In other words, at first glance this might suggest that they reach a peak spawning rate around December, followed by a big drop in spawning by May; however, because of the high variation from fish to fish, this probably means nothing and there are no real month-to-month differences in relative gonadal size. Unfortunately, data points are missing for the months of June-September because the area is inundated with high water flow so fish couldn't be collected; who knows what is going on during that time. Consistent with the statistical insignificance of this same data, the authors also found that females carried mature eggs throughout the year, suggesting that the species is an asynchronous spawner (continuous spawning throughout the year). And by inference, they should not be dependent on an environmental cue like a sudden drop in water hardness, which might selectively occur with seasonal flooding. However, I imagine that inference might be too simplistic.

As to potential egg mass numbers to expect, the authors wrote,

The absolute fecundity was 48 ± 19 oocytes, varying between 39 and 143 oocytes per female.

This is based on the number of developed oocytes present in the ovaries at any time; it is not, as far as I can tell in my translation, a count of actual eggs laid. Interpretation: If 39 eggs is minimum and the average is only 48, then the typical clutch size is probably going to be in the range of 40-60 eggs per female; don't expect females with 140 eggs very often.

Also, I found some potentially useful habitat information:

The Alizal is a typical rocky region along the Bita River [Eric's note: Bita = Vita?], located 21.3 km upstream from the Orinoco River (6° 12' 0.8" N, 67° 38' 20.5" W). It has a heterogeneous structure consisting of porous rocks interspersed with solid rocks, all of which will offer great possible niches for wildlife that inhabits it. The river water is warm, with an average temperature of 30.9 ± 0.3°C (maximum, 31.1°C; minimum, 30.1°C); the water is highly oxygenated (8.2 ± 0.1 mg O2/L) and slightly acidic (pH 6.6 ± 0.1).

In fairness, this pretty much states what we already know about other Hemiancistrus - warm, well oxygenated, slightly acidic water, and they like to hang out in rocky areas. None the less, it is reassuring to find this documented here....

...Wait, what?!? Average temp 30.9°C ??? That's 88°F! That's hot! (steaming hot, not steaming mad). At least it's a lot hotter than indicated in the CLOG (75-81°F). I wonder if that means they won't spawn eagerly in my tank at 80°F?

Curiously, I also found a sentence which read,

The red doghouse ("La cucha roja") lives in the Alizal at a density of 0.06 individuals per square meter

... Is the local name for Hemiancistrus guahiborum the "red doghouse?" Please, tell me this is a mistranslation!

So blue question #2 is answered, but I'm still interested in people's feedback on blue question #1 from the last post... And about that "red doghouse" thing, too.

Cheers, Eric

I'm certainly no student of South American languages, but L106 is named after the Guahibo tribe. Some of the indigenous people in this area (e.g. the Yanomami) traditionally live in a very distinctive type of circular fort-village.
Perhaps the Guahibo tribe is named after the type of house they live in?

Well done on finding and translating that paper. It does appear the cat-elog would benefit from an update on the natural environment?

Jools

Sure, I can do that.

Thanks Eric, that would be great.

Jools

Mol_PMB wrote:I'm certainly no student of South American languages, but L106 is named after the Guahibo tribe. Some of the indigenous people in this area (e.g. the Yanomami) traditionally live in a very distinctive type of circular fort-village.
Perhaps the Guahibo tribe is named after the type of house they live in?

Thanks, Paul; that could be. Honestly I have no idea. I think I'm hoping that it's a mistranslation, because I can't imagine a fish being called any kind of building. As an alternative usage of the word (but still interpretable as doghouse), at the end of the first paragraph the word "cucha" is used alone, without the word red preceding it; the sentence reads:

This area... has delivered to the market a wide variety of species of fish prized internationally, among them those belonging to the family Loricariidae, commercially known as kennels.

In this particular sentence, Google Translate interpreted this usage "cucha" as "kennel."

But more importantly, "cucha" appears to be a generic local name for many loricariids. To investigate this further, I used Google Scholar and searched for the keywords "cucha" and "loricariidae;" I obtained over 50 results, research papers in which the authors may have used the word "cucha" to refer to these fish (I'll be honest and admit that I looked at only a handful of these references; indeed, each paper I examined used the word "cucha" for many loricariids - for example, was called the "Royal cucha" in one paper).

Also, going back to the paper at issue here (about H. guahiborum), the authors also mention several other species:
sp. = cucha piña (Translated by Google as "pineapple listening")
= cucha guacamaya (Translated by Google as "Macaw listening")
= cucha cebra (Translated by Google as "zebra listening")

In all three of these usages, Google Translate interpreted the word "cucha" as "listening" - that's very different from doghouse or kennel. Alas, my coworker who is Brazilian and who speaks fluent Portuguese is out of town for the week and unavailable to ask.

One final observation: I used the site search tool to search PlanetCatfish for the word "cucha;" I found a handful of references (many by @Shane) presenting local names where "cucha" is used for "pleco." It may not explain why they are called cucha, but it does affirm that cucha is a local name for pleco.

Cheers, Eric

bekateen wrote:Alas, my coworker who is Brazilian and who speaks fluent Portuguese is out of town for the week and unavailable to ask.

Maybe a Spanish speaker would be better ;)

racoll wrote:

bekateen wrote:Alas, my coworker who is Brazilian and who speaks fluent Portuguese is out of town for the week and unavailable to ask.

Maybe a Spanish speaker would be better ;)

See? That's why you're paid the big bucks!

Actually, the translations "doghouse," "kennel," and "listening" are Spanish, not Portuguese (I had originally typed this in my prior post, but I decided to delete it due to the length of the post):

The article's website states that the article is written in Portuguese. But when I downloaded it and put it into Google Translate using Portuguese as the selected language, Google Translate responded with a gibberish translation. So next I selected "Auto-detect language;" Google Translate chose Spanish and then it translated the paper just fine.

So I can't explain that discrepancy, but it is unexpected (at least by me).
Personally, I don't speak Portuguese or Spanish, so I don't know how to recognize one from the other. If anyone who reads either of these languages looks at the original article, could you please tell me if the article is in Spanish?

Here's a weird coincidence (or is it?): I emailed my Portuguese coworker and asked about the word cucha. He responded faster than I expected, saying he'd never heard that word. BUT, he said that in Portuguese there is a "very very colloquial" verb, chuchar, which means to chew or suckle. Maybe there is a relationship there (or maybe not).

Cheers, Eric

P.S., Here's a moment of humble confession: Before finding and reading this paper, I had never heard of a "scree" and I had no idea what it meant. This just goes to show that we learn something new everyday!

bekateen wrote:If anyone who reads either of these languages looks at the original article, could you please tell me if the article is in Spanish?

Although the abstract is in Spanish, Portuguese, and English, the main article is definitely Spanish. The quickest way to tell is with the word "and", a common enough word in almost any passage of writing.

In Spanish the word "and" is "y", and in Portuguese it is "e". Seeing "y" dotted around on its own is a good sign of Spanish.

Okay, thank you.

... So @Racoll, what does cucha mean?

And do you have any perspective to offer on the observation that these plecos live at 88F? Will Centomochlus perugiae like it that hot, or even close to that (e.g., even 85F)?

Cheers, Eric

bekateen wrote:... So @Racoll, what does cucha mean?

No idea. Fishermen in these places can make up many silly/strange/nonsensical names for fishes. For example, and are called "bread" in Brazil. No idea why. Because they are common perhaps?

And do you have any perspective to offer on the observation that these plecos live at 88F?

Pretty much what I would expect. It's hot on the equator!

Will Centomochlus perugiae like it that hot, or even close to that (e.g., even 85F)?

Hmmm, not sure about . These can be tricky as they can be found in both small cool creeks and large warmer rivers. More research is needed. Surely they have been kept widely enough for people to get a general idea of what they prefer?

I had some once in with some discus at 29C, and they seemed to be okay, it that means anything.

bekateen wrote: And do you have any perspective to offer on the observation that these plecos live at 88F? Will Centomochlus perugiae like it that hot, or even close to that (e.g., even 85F)?
Cheers, Eric

I don't know about the perugiae. But many of "our" plecos are living in hot water like this. But pretty much all of them will do just fine at between 28-30°C (82-86°F). Only for breeding attempts it can be helpful to raise the temp closer to their natural habitat for some time (simulating dry season). And don't forget, just because fish adopted to those high temperatures it might still not be the optimum. Oxygenation is a big problem at those high temperatures. Your plecos might actually feel more comfortable on a little lower temp but with a higher oxygenation capacity in the water.

LFS usually don't have high temps in their tanks, not even for their plecos. Keep that in mind. So I would start off with something like 82°F and let them adopt slowly and try raising temps later step by step (like weekly) and see if their behaviour changes in any positive way. If nothing changes you might just as well stay at something like 83°F. Most plecos will be pretty comfortable there. Even if their natural habitat was warmer. And you still have plenty of headroom to raise temperature for stimulations later on.

Go with 88°F if you're confident and want to offer a natural habitat, just don't do it from day one, start off slowly and keep watching carefully as you'd usually do.

Ok, thanks Racoll and Johannes.

racoll wrote:

bekateen wrote:... So @Racoll, what does cucha mean?

No idea. Fishermen in these places can make up many silly/strange/nonsensical names for fishes. For example,

L066

and

L260

are called "bread" in Brazil. No idea why. Because they are common perhaps?

You inspired me to go back to the original paper, to see how the Portuguese abstract handled the Spanish phrase "cucha roja." In the key words which follow the abstract, the Portuguese uses "cascudo vermelho" instead of "cucha roja." Google Translate interprets this as Portuguese (finally! LOL), as "red catfish" or "red armored catfish." That's a relief.


Now, going back to the unanswered questions from post #7 above:

To those of you who have kept this species, can anybody offer any personal experience with sexing these critters? Most importantly,
1.Which of the sexing characters will apply to H. guahiborum? (I suspect the best traits to use are head shape, pectoral spine size, pectoral spine odontodes (if present), and genital papillae, in that order), and
2. Which of the sexing characters will be evident first? Which will develop as the earliest sign(s) of sexual maturation?

Thanks again, Eric

@MatsP, from the H. guahiborum CLOG, you have reported owning more of these pretty fish than anyone else. What is your experience with them, in general and especially with regard to the questions above?

Thanks, Eric