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Just picked one up today and figured I'd share some acclimating vid as well as ask if anyone's got some experience with these guys that they'd be willing to share. I know it's unlikely since so few seem to own them but still I figured I'd throw it out there. By the way be warned the music in the video starts low but suddenly gets loud, don't want to startle anyone or annoy them while they're watching my quick vid. Thanks in advance for your time and consideration.

I can't give any advice or knowledge , but I can tell you that it is a lovely fish

The Centrodoras is a very easy fish to keep. I had one for a number of years. It could only be seen at night when the lights were off and that was not often. How large is the tank you are going to use to house this fish. You can see images of my fish in the Cat-eLog.

Mark

Jumpmaster wrote:I can't give any advice or knowledge , but I can tell you that it is a lovely fish

Thanks, much appreciated. I really like the color and body shape on him, I can tell along with my Trachy's he's gonna be a long time fave of mine.

corybreed wrote:The Centrodoras is a very easy fish to keep. I had one for a number of years. It could only be seen at night when the lights were off and that was not often. How large is the tank you are going to use to house this fish. You can see images of my fish in the Cat-eLog.

Mark

He's presently in a 135 but I'll be moving in 6 months or so and plan on having a bigger dedicated fishroom with at least 1x240L and 1x300T so he'll be moving into one of those longterm. I was thinking about a pond but as I'm moving into one of those communities where there are rules about what you can add to the outside appearance of your home, the pond is unlikely. One of the reason I wanted this guy besides him being stunning is because according to the Cat-e-Log he's one of the smaller Doradidae and I'm a big Doradidae fan. I'm also hoping to get some dorbignyi from a reputable source in the coming weeks. Keeping my fingers crossed they come in.

Did you get the Centrodoras from Jeff Rapps. I saw he had them for sale last week.
Mark

corybreed wrote:Did you get the Centrodoras from Jeff Rapps. I saw he had them for sale last week.
Mark

Yes I did, unfortunately it was the last one. He had started with 10 or so, I was strapped for cash when he first brought them in; so I had to settle for just the one he had left.

Rather then create another thread with the same name unnecessarily and because info. on these guys is few and far between, I figured I'd add some personal observation etc. I also again invite anyone else who wants to contribute any info. to the thread to please do. Keeping the info. contained to one thread would make it a lot easier to find for anyone who's interested in learning about these guys. I might also try creating a thread on Monsterfishkeepers so I can post their experiences here or ask them to join here and contribute their own info. themselves in the hopes of gathering as much info. as possible. I'd also appreciate anyone who has personal experience with Megalodoras Uranoscopas and Oxydoras niger sharing as well as I'd like to compare the differences in behavior and growth between the other large Doradidae.

I obtained this specimen from Jeff Rapps/Tangled Up In Cichlids on 5-15-2014 he was just over 10inches(254mm). I spoke with Jeff for a bit mostly because I wanted more then the 1 individual he had available and asked when he'd be getting more in, I can tell you right now the out look was bleak. Apparently he had around 10 in stock originally and there wasn't much interest in them so he wound up sitting on them for 11 months before the last one was sold. Luckily my enthusiasm for these guys as well as my agreement to buy as many as needed to ensure him bringing them in again won him over . As such he agreed to give me a heads up before they actually come in so I can get my funds in order. So if anyone in the U.S. is interested in obtaining these guys just let me know and I'll try to keep you in the loop as to their availability. One of the other things I discovered about my particular specimen was that he/she along with the others where aquacultured rather then wild caught. I also learned that they came in at around 4-5inches(127mm)and grew to around the 10inches(254mm)I received mine at in 11 months on a pellet and chopped shrimp and fish diet. According to Jeff their growth was pretty uniform.

Upon my specimens arrival and despite being a aquacultered fish mine did not eat for sometime. I'm not sure if this was do to the shipping stress, individual personality, the bacterial eye infection he came in with, the pellets I offered or a combination of these things. I suspect my pellets played a part because I buy pellets from Kensfish and his pellets are the least smelly pellet I've encountered so far, this was contrary to the pellets Jeff said he fed them which he said where quite aromatic. Much like other Doradidae his/her aversion to light was obvious as was his need for a hide. Initially he searched quite feverishly for a place to call home and found one under a pile of driftwood he could barely squeeze into. He/She has mostly remained under the pile(which is large/long enough for him to swim back and forth under)even at night. Within the past 2 days he/she finally ate the pellets I offered and even ventured out in the light to search for more. His/her eyes are beginning to clear as well and his overall demeanor is more confident in my opinion. His/her tankmates include 2 Trachycorystes Trachycorystes,a male and female around 12+inche(304mm)each who led to me witnessing a interesting behavior on the part of the Centrodoras. Now I've always believed/thought that large Doradidae are peaceful even among other catfish and would share a hide. How ever thus far the Centro has vigorously defended his home under the driftwood against the larger Trachys. Now luckily the Trachy's are puppy dogs and are completely unfazed by the attacks to the point where they seem to be oblivious to the Centro's ire, but still I was surprised by the intensity of the Centro's attack. The attack included head butts and tail swipes and was quite vigorous, the Trachys where smacked around till they left the area. There was not a moment of peace as their swimming about was interrupted and they where knocked to and fro. It made me wonder do other large Doradidae act this way is it unusual but occasionally observed?

Well those are my experiences so far with my specimen and I hope anyone who is interested in Centrodoras Brachiatus finds what I wrote helpful. I'll continue documenting growth and interactions and post it here when I feel it could be helpful to others. Again I also help others will post their experiences with Magalodoras Uranoscopas and Oxydoras niger. Like do they ever out grow the need for a hide? are there any ways to make them more active under lighted conditions? I've seen pics of Oxydoras willing to surface to get food and be hand fed do Megalodoras also show the same kind of confidence? Thanks in advance for any info or comments.

Great stuff, Kolt.

KS: I'd also appreciate anyone who has personal experience with Megalodoras Uranoscopas and Oxydoras niger sharing as well as I'd like to compare the differences in behavior and growth between the other large Doradidae.
VJ: That may be a tall order for most Pointed questions, like below, are better.

KS: ... So if anyone in the U.S. is interested in obtaining these guys just let me know and I'll try to keep you in the loop as to their availability.
VJ: How much are they? I'm interested but cannot commit 100%. Not w/i a year, I think unlikely. I do hope to get some though, just a matter of how our "DIY" Public Aquarium will be faring.

KS: ...Centro has vigorously defended his home ... It made me wonder do other large Doradidae act this way is it unusual but occasionally observed?
VJ: I've never seen it with nigers (1'-3'), lithodoras (1.5'), irwinis (4"-12"). Sizes indicate the limits of my personal experience.

KS: Like do they ever out grow the need for a hide?
VJ: My 2'-3' nigers did not hide at all in a 4000 gal. 1'-2' hid, esp. when harassed by large predators, like TSNs and TSNxRTCs.

KS: ... are there any ways to make them more active under lighted conditions?
VJ: dim lights, no predation attacks, lots of space

KS: I've seen pics of Oxydoras willing to surface to get food and be hand fed do Megalodoras also show the same kind of confidence?
VJ: My 2'-3' nigers definitely did that and so did my litho. My megas are still small, plus I have not tried with them yet. Big ones (~1.5'+) do that in the hands of others.

Viktor Jarikov wrote:Great stuff, Kolt.

KS: I'd also appreciate anyone who has personal experience with Megalodoras Uranoscopas and Oxydoras niger sharing as well as I'd like to compare the differences in behavior and growth between the other large Doradidae.
VJ: That may be a tall order for most Pointed questions, like below, are better.

Thanks for the great and informative response Viktor.

Thanks for the advice I'll try to keep my questions more specific going forward. Which by the way I have thought of another. What's the general activity level of the larger Doradidae? I imagine they're less active during the day but how active can they get at night? Do they actively patrol or are they fairly inactive at night as well only patroling during certain times after lights out, like sundown and just before dawn?

Viktor Jarikov wrote: KS: ... So if anyone in the U.S. is interested in obtaining these guys just let me know and I'll try to keep you in the loop as to their availability.
VJ: How much are they? I'm interested but cannot commit 100%. Not w/i a year, I think unlikely. I do hope to get some though, just a matter of how our "DIY" Public Aquarium will be faring.

Jeff was selling them for $110 at 10 inches but he said they originally came in at 4-5 inches so I'm unsure if the price was less when he first got them and rose as they got bigger or where always that price and and he never raised the price even as they grow. Unfortunately he was hesitant to order them again due to the low interest and it was because I told him I'd buy as many as necessary for him to bring them in again that he was willing to work with me. If/when he does get them in I plan on grabbing quite a few so I'd be willing to part with one at a later date for you. I also am probably moving to Georgia in the next year so I'd be closer to you if you're in FL making your receiving them easier on both of us.

Viktor Jarikov wrote: KS: ...Centro has vigorously defended his home ... It made me wonder do other large Doradidae act this way is it unusual but occasionally observed?
VJ: I've never seen it with nigers (1'-3'), lithodoras (1.5'), irwinis (4"-12"). Sizes indicate the limits of my personal experience.

Thanks for the input. I've kept Megalodoras Uranoscopas and Pterodoras granulosus in the past and never saw any aggression as well, so I had a feeling it was unusual. As a matter of fact the Mega and Ptero where kept with these same Trachycorystes 6 years ago and showed no aggression and even shared PVC pipes I used as hides back then peacefully. I'm not sure if the aggression was natural or due to Jeff keeping this one with a large group of Calophysus macropterus which he said tormented the Centro. So perhaps this aggression was in reaction to the aggression and lack of hides that he carried over to my tank.

Gotta say I'm extremely jealous of you having a Lithodoras. I've wanted one for quite some time and missed them due to space and finance shortages the last time I saw them available. Very cool cat!

Viktor Jarikov wrote: KS: Like do they ever out grow the need for a hide?
VJ: My 2'-3' nigers did not hide at all in a 4000 gal. 1'-2' hid, esp. when harassed by large predators, like TSNs and TSNxRTCs.

Glad to know as though he does make appearances once in awhile now, it is definitely fleeting and I'd like to see more of him if possible.

Viktor Jarikov wrote: KS: ... are there any ways to make them more active under lighted conditions?
VJ: dim lights, no predation attacks, lots of space

The no predation attacks are no prob as I've lost interest in attempting to cohab aggressive fish or keeping incorrectly sized tankmates together. I always managed to do some surprising cohabs but there was always drama or losses just around the bend. As for low lights I was thinking about adding some floating plants. I keep my waters surface flowing pretty quickly to aid in gas exchange so I'm hoping it'll cause the vegetation to rotate around the tank making it hopefully similar to the effect a cloudy day might have on the water creating intermitten shade. Which might coax them out more while still leaving enough light for observing and pic taking.

Viktor Jarikov wrote: KS: I've seen pics of Oxydoras willing to surface to get food and be hand fed do Megalodoras also show the same kind of confidence?
VJ: My 2'-3' nigers definitely did that and so did my litho. My megas are still small, plus I have not tried with them yet. Big ones (~1.5'+) do that in the hands of others.

Again thanks for the input. One of my favorite things is being able to feed my trachys by hand or seeing them eat from the surface. So it's nice to know I might be able to enjoy the same experience with my Centro.

KS: Thanks for the advice I'll try to keep my questions more specific going forward.
VJ: Hey, nothing wrong with asking general questions. I am clumsily looking out for you, is all, so you get answers and not feel ignored / snubbed / what not. People type up useful general answers quite rarely. It happens though

KS: What's the general activity level of the larger Doradidae?
VJ: 2'-3' nigers and my litho were visible any time (see below too) but the 4000 gal was in my basement and lights were dim. I was lucky to see the smaller ones at one in 3 feedings. |||||| I introduced some fish at some point and then the smaller ones and the litho started to hide much, much more. I struggle to recall which fish. Or something changed... IIRC, the pacus grew up and started to get nasty to others. They are piranhas after all. It could have been the grown-up TSN and TSNxRTC - the main predators that ran the pond - but going on memory, I doubt that. EDIT: could have been my two alligator gars.

KS: I imagine they're less active during the day but how active can they get at night?
VJ: Having been an under-dedicated researcher, I've slept at nights Also, I never had lights out - always had some night light on to lessen the risk of predation.

KS: Do they actively patrol or are they fairly inactive at night as well only patroling during certain times after lights out, like sundown and just before dawn?
VJ: My understanding is they are very nocturnal when smaller, then it relaxes quite a bit but night time is still their time. Both in the wild and in other people's tanks.

KS: ... I also am probably moving to Georgia in the next year so I'd be closer to you making your receiving them easier on both of us.
VJ: That'd be sweet. What's another 400 miles? Move to Naples

KS: I've kept Megalodoras Uranoscopas and Pterodoras granulosus in the past and never saw any aggression as well, so I had a feeling it was unusual. As a matter of fact the Mega and Ptero where kept with these same Trachycorystes 6 years ago and showed no aggression and even shared PVC pipes I used as hides back then peacefully. I'm not sure if the aggression was natural or due to Jeff keeping this one with a large group of Calophysus macropterus which he said tormented the Centro. So perhaps this aggression was in reaction to the aggression and lack of hides that he carried over to my tank.
VJ: Interesting. That'd be the first case for me. Not because I know the opposite but because I've never encountered any "carry-over" cases like that. Yeah, I forgot about the granulosus but my experience is limited to less than 12". About the same as megas. ||||| Generalization can be misleading. It remains that centros may simply be more assertive.

KS: Gotta say I'm extremely jealous of you having a Lithodoras. I've wanted one for quite some time and missed them due to space and finance shortages the last time I saw them available. Very cool cat!
VJ: Beginner's luck. I've never seen them offered. Where have you seen them?

KS: ... As for low lights I was thinking about adding some floating plants...
VJ: Plants is a whole different ball game for me. High effort - high reward type of thing. I'd let him settle in and let him learn to feed from your hand or at least the surface and then see ?

KS: ... So it's nice to know I might be able to enjoy the same experience with my Centro.
VJ: If they are as much obsessed with food as other Doradids listed, chances are you will.

Viktor Jarikov wrote:Hey, nothing wrong with asking general questions. I am clumsily looking out for you, is all, so you get answers and not feel ignored / snubbed / what not. People type up useful general answers quite rarely. It happens though

No worries, I figured and it was appreciated. As for not receiving responses it doesn't really faze me. I tend to like unusual fish so many times threads I create don't generate many replies so I got used to it on MFK. It used to cheese me off at first but hey I like what I like can't change that and I can't expect other to change what they like so I had to learn to accept that I may not get many responses. Still I do admit it is better when I can share this hobby so when I do get responses I appreciate them all the more. So thanks for the engaging replies!

Viktor Jarikov wrote: 2'-3' nigers and my litho were visible any time (see below too) but the 4000 gal was in my basement and lights were dim. I was lucky to see the smaller ones at one in 3 feedings. |||||| I introduced some fish at some point and then the smaller ones and the litho started to hide much, much more. I struggle to recall which fish. Or something changed... IIRC, the pacus grew up and started to get nasty to others. They are piranhas after all. It could have been the grown-up TSN and TSNxRTC - the main predators that ran the pond - but going on memory, I doubt that. EDIT: could have been my two alligator gars.

I've never had experience with Alligator Gars so I couldn't even render a guess as to them being the possible culprits. I will say my guess would be the same as your first, the Pacus. They are horribly aggressive eaters and will ravenously feed at any water level so I'm guessing it was their quick powerful, assertive motions that put off the Doradidae as they probably fed off the substrate to pick up any and all remnants of food.

Viktor Jarikov wrote: Having been an under-dedicated researcher, I've slept at nights Also, I never had lights out - always had some night light on to lessen the risk of predation.

You slept at night?!? So you're human after all. The only reason I know anything about night time activity is the Trachys and now the Centro are in my bedroom. So when the lights go off on the tank I tear myself away from the computer and tv every once in awhile to see what everyone is up to.

Viktor Jarikov wrote:My understanding is they are very nocturnal when smaller, then it relaxes quite a bit but night time is still their time. Both in the wild and in other people's tanks.

Good and reassuring to know. I gotta say the Centro's boldness grows with each passing day. He still hides but during feeding times he is wandering further and further away from the hide despite being under bright lights.

Viktor Jarikov wrote:That'd be sweet. What's another 400 miles? Move to Naples

lol! I might've considered it if I didn't have quite a bit of family in Georgia. Between that and the low price on houses(I'm hoping to buy outright) I figured I'd have more money for the hobby, well for that and a pool. Still no worries if you come to get the Centro instead of getting it shipped you'd be welcome to say for a night to recoup, says the currently single unmarried man.

Viktor Jarikov wrote:Interesting. That'd be the first case for me. Not because I know the opposite but because I've never encountered any "carry-over" cases like that. Yeah, I forgot about the granulosus but my experience is limited to less than 12". About the same as megas. ||||| Generalization can be misleading. It remains that centros may simply be more assertive.

It is definitely a possibility that they are simply more assertive. I've only seen carried over aggression a couple of times and only once with catfish. My first Apurensis was tormented by a Red Devil till he couldn't stand it anymore and ate him. The Apu managed to live peacefully with many cichlids the same size and smaller then that Red devil after the incident but when ever I introduced a new Red Devil the Apu would make a bee line for it and if he couldn't consume the RD he'd butt and bite it to shredds within minutes of it's introduction into the tank.

Viktor Jarikov wrote:Beginner's luck. I've never seen them offered. Where have you seen them?

I've seen Jeff Rapps carry them once or twice. The last time I saw him carrying them was in 2009 along with a Centrodoras. So I may have to ask him how likely he'd be able to get them in again. I also think I remember someone else more recently offering them, I think an MFK vendor; I'll do a quick search later and see if I can find out who else had them.

Viktor Jarikov wrote:Plants is a whole different ball game for me. High effort - high reward type of thing. I'd let him settle in and let him learn to feed from your hand or at least the surface and then see ?

It is true some plants are high effort but there are some that people say are like algae, once you introduce them they're nearly impossible to remove. I have a whole bunch of plans to try and upgrade my filter system and was hoping to try Pothos and I figured some floating plants to help with Nitrates and to hopefully out compete algae. I was also hoping to add some fluidized bed filters to the equation. Still I think you're right it'd be better to get the Centro used to my lighting and work on handfeeding before thinking about floating plants. Wonder if he'll go crazy for Hikari Aro Sticks like the Trachys do. Introducing those sticks was all the incentive my Trachys needed to become surface feeders.

KS: I've never had experience with Alligator Gars so I couldn't even render a guess as to them being the possible culprits. I will say my guess would be the same as your first, the Pacus. They are horribly aggressive eaters and will ravenously feed at any water level so I'm guessing it was their quick powerful, assertive motions that put off the Doradidae as they probably fed off the substrate to pick up any and all remnants of food.
VJ: I think it came back to me. It was the gars. Not that pacu are innocuous. Only recently did I realize that it was the pacu that were destroying my channel cats for the last 5 years. Pacu made it a habit of biting off bits of channel's fins and barbels eventually almost to stubs. Looks like they were "supplementing their diet", casually swimming up to the cats and biting off bits (I have just eventually managed to observe it). Recently they killed like that 3 of my 2.5' channels. Strange that only channels let them do it, none of the SA cats did. This happened in 1000, 4000, and 50,000 gal regardless.

KS: The only reason I know anything about night time activity is the Trachys and now the Centro are in my bedroom...
VJ: Nice. You are well positioned to do scores of observations.

KS: ... Still no worries if you come to get the Centro instead of getting it shipped you'd be welcome to say for a night to recoup...
VJ: Appreciate the offer and ditto.

KS: ... I've only seen carried over aggression a couple of times and only once with catfish. My first Apurensis was tormented by a Red Devil till he couldn't stand it anymore and ate him. The Apu managed to live peacefully with many cichlids the same size and smaller then that Red devil after the incident but when ever I introduced a new Red Devil the Apu would make a bee line for it and if he couldn't consume the RD he'd butt and bite it to shredds within minutes of it's introduction into the tank.
VJ: Wow, that's no goldfish's 15 sec memory. Good to know.

KS: ... I've seen Jeff Rapps carry them once or twice. The last time I saw him carrying them was in 2009 along with a Centrodoras. So I may have to ask him how likely he'd be able to get them in again. I also think I remember someone else more recently offering them, I think an MFK vendor; I'll do a quick search later and see if I can find out who else had them.
VJ: These guys I am interested in much. My litho was called Rocky and was my favorite. I miss him and would like to get a few, price permitting.

Viktor Jarikov wrote:I think it came back to me. It was the gars. Not that pacu are innocuous. Only recently did I realize that it was the pacu that were destroying my channel cats for the last 5 years. Pacu made it a habit of biting off bits of channel's fins and barbels eventually almost to stubs. Looks like they were "supplementing their diet", casually swimming up to the cats and biting off bits (I have just eventually managed to observe it). Recently they killed like that 3 of my 2.5' channels. Strange that only channels let them do it, none of the SA cats did. This happened in 1000, 4000, and 50,000 gal regardless.

I'm surprised, I know Gars make their way to the bottom but I didn't think they'd actively hunt or be aggressive in the lower strata. I had always figured the only fish they'd target would more mid and upper water fish or at very least fish that aren't look well more like fish. I'm sorry to hear about the Channels.

Viktor Jarikov wrote:Nice. You are well positioned to do scores of observations.

Yep, but so far the observations haven't been very interesting as the only difference is the Centro's slightly more active under the driftwood pile. During the day he sits in one specific location, the one he can really wedge himself into and rarely if ever moves; unless there's food in the tank. When food is introduced he becomes extremely lively feverishly looking for the food to beat out the Trachy's and as I've noted before his confidence grows daily.

Viktor Jarikov wrote:Appreciate the offer and ditto.

No problem and thanks I may take you up on that someday, I definitely wouldn't mind checking out your collection.

Viktor Jarikov wrote:Wow, that's no goldfish's 15 sec memory. Good to know.

Definitely not, Apu's really are something; it's too bad their temperament seems to really limit what they're cohab'd with. My 3-4 inch specimen gets so defensive of his hide that he actually locked jaws with my 12 inch Trachy male. I freaked, thought the Trachy was trying to eat the small Apu but then the Apu pushed the Trachy out of his hide and I saw he was actually the aggressor but the Trachy wasn't backing down. I had to physically separate them.

Viktor Jarikov wrote:These guys I am interested in much. My litho was called Rocky and was my favorite. I miss him and would like to get a few, price permitting.

I asked Jeff about being able to bring in Lithos with the Centro's but got no response. I'm not sure if it slipped his mind or if it's because of the shipment he was expecting seeming to be extremely late. When he does reach out I'll definitely let you know.

Small update: I had to remove a Megalodoras Uranoscopas from the tank that contained the Centrodoras due to aggression. I had seen the Centro act aggressively towards the Trachy's but not so much toward the Megalodoras except when there was a hide the Centro wanted. I did how ever note that the aggression level directed at the Mega was a lot higher then the Trachy's. I had attributed this to the difference to be due to perhaps the situations that caused the aggression. I thought perhaps instinct prioritized territorial aggression over feeding aggression and the fact that the Trachy's where only occasional intruders this led to them receiving the lesser amount of aggression. It should also be noted that all the aggression seen thus far was under normal day time lighting conditions.

Over the last few nights I suffered from insomnia and spent quite a bit of time watching the Centro and the Megs interactions under no light conditions. What I found was the Centro would chase the Meg no matter where the Meg went during the night. Was this the reason behind the Megs sudden loss of interest in food? Much of the between the Centro and Meg aggression was obscured from my view by driftwood so despite the actions being more vigorous I couldn't tell there was another difference between how the aggression was being dolled out between the Trachy's and Mega. The other difference was while the Trachys got head butted and whipped with the tail the Mega got head butted and bit. The bites where vicious the Centro would literally grab the Mega and shake him like a ragdoll while swimming around with him in his mouth I assume in an attempt to both hurt the Mega as well as remove him from the Centro's perceived territory. The bites where always around the whiskers, pectoral and dorsal fins and I soon found out why the Centro was able to pick the Mega up by the pectoral fins and shake him about without the Mega escaping. After turning on the lights I saw the Mega's dorsal fin and pectorals where little more now then just the hard spines. So I immediately moved the Mega to another tank where his only tankmates are some Ptychromis Tarantsy and Electric Blue Acara's who are significantly smaller then the Meg. Hopefully he'll find peace in his new home.

Again this is my first experience keeping Centrodoras and I have only one individual so I don't know if this is normal behavior for them or I just have a one off among the species. It does have me wondering though if this is normal does this mean that the aggression is more intense toward conspecifics or other Doradidae then to other cats. As is the Centro has shown no interest or aggression towards the Geophagus Abalios or Severums who regularly intrude on his territory under the driftwood. As a matter of fact one of the Geo's sleeps right beside the Centro when the Centro isn't busy kicking butt. So aggression seems to be limited to other cats and increased beyond that toward closely related species. Which still makes me wonder about other differences between Centro's and other Doradidae.

I realize it is now a year later, but Raymond Chan has some available @ 13 inches. You can find him on Facebook or as Amazing Fish on MFK. I am seriously thinking of getting one, as Dories are a favorite of mine too. I need one that won't grow to be a giant, although my Irwini sure isn't growing.

Interesting specimen

A have a C. hasemani. Got it in 2001 while attending an ACA in New Jersey. Bought it at 10cm from Shark Aquarium for $14.99.
Keep it in a 180 with a royal pleco and a lot of guppies. Eats pellets, mackerel, herring, smelt, trout, silversides and the guppies.
pictures of mine on C. hasemani profile.