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I haven't posted in a little while and thought I'd share an update of the 150 gallon Blue Eye Pleco tank
The "pair" of blue eyes are doing well, they rarely fight and the two fish have seemingly divided the tank between them.

In addition to the two original true Blue Eye Panaques there's a handful of bristlenose plecos, three geophagus, four silver angelfish, some lemon and red&blue tetras and a pretty healthy population of 19 cories

Here's a rare close up of the two Panaques next to each other

You can see the larger blue eye completely dwarfs this four inch male bristlenose pleco

One more look at the overall simple aquascape

Nice! What species of Geophagus are those?

They are Geophagus altifrons that I've had since they were barely half an inch long - you could just tell that they were cichlids at that size, but not that they were Geos

Looking good!

What size tank is that? It looks deep.

The wood looks natural. What wood is it?

The wood is all pulled from my yard here in Colorado, I don't know what species they are though. There is one log in there of Aspen that I pulled from the local creek and they've mowed down about 1/4 inch around the whole thing. The tank is 30 inches deep and it helps with the super dramatic display. Now I just need some south american fish to hang out in the top of the tank

The tall tank with the tall pieces of wood looks cool, but you're right you do need some action in the upper level. Not really a fan of the gravel though, especially with earth eaters that should really be kept of find sand so they can exhibit their natural feeding behaviour.

You could do a Carnegiella species for some movement in the top zone...

The gravel is finer than it looks and the Geos have no problem sifting through it. A closer pic so you can see the gravel size, this is the smallest size i could get away with while having a lot of water flow

Hi all,

The gravel is finer than it looks and the Geos have no problem sifting through it. A closer pic so you can see the gravel size, this is the smallest size i could get away with while having a lot of water flow

I still think the substrate looks too coarse for Geophagus or particularly Cories. I also wonder whether the Panque would be happier with a lot more cover on the bottom, either a really large wooden snag (with natural hiding places), or drain pipe caves (2 or more). It doesn't have to be quite this big, but this sort of thing <http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... 1&p=158791>

You can still have sand in tanks with high flow, if you have a "sand in the filter" problem this is easily rectified by having a coarse pre-filter sponge on the intake, and the flow problem by using a mix of sand and and fine gravel. As the flow distributes the sand around the tank the coarser grains will be left in areas of high flow, and the finer grains in areas of lower flow. Areas of very high flow will have a bare bottom, and you can put larger rounded pebbles or cobbles there. In fact in the same way that a river would sort sediments.
I got this idea from one of Haarvard Stoeres' great photo postings, where the current had sorted his substrate.

<http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... rd#p177140>

Even in high flow tanks you should be able to move the decor around to give a flat spot where suspended fine sediment, faeces etc will accumulate. Put a piece of flat slate there, and then you can syphon out all the debris.

cheers Darrel

I agree that sand is probably better for the Geo's and cory's than the gravel you have. But I understand your point.

I have two 120's setup and one is very similar to yours. I use some powerful circulation pumps on one end of the tank blowing lengthwise and both tanks have overflows. Getting sand into the pumps or overflow has not been a problem. The problem I have is "duning" where the current pushes the sand into dunes within the tank.

The Geo's do help reduce the duning somewhat as they spread the sand out with their sifting. I also included about 50 lbs of coarse gravel that mixes in with the sand and reduces the duning in the problem areas.

Andy

Nice fish and blue eyes 't call it but personally I wouldn't call it paradise. I don't see any hiding places, it's to open. Panaque like to hide. And you'd better use fine sand; it;s better for the cory's and geo's

but the blue eyes are wonderful

Thanks Darrel for quickly reminding me why I don't like posting on forums where critics like you are quick to reinforce aquarium bulletin board dogma. Apparently these cories didn't get the memo that they should be living over sand, this natural habitat substrate is just a wee but bigger than mine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JCZA-4CQH8

Narwhal72 wrote:I agree that sand is probably better for the Geo's and cory's than the gravel you have. But I understand your point.

I have two 120's setup and one is very similar to yours. I use some powerful circulation pumps on one end of the tank blowing lengthwise and both tanks have overflows. Getting sand into the pumps or overflow has not been a problem. The problem I have is "duning" where the current pushes the sand into dunes within the tank.

The Geo's do help reduce the duning somewhat as they spread the sand out with their sifting. I also included about 50 lbs of coarse gravel that mixes in with the sand and reduces the duning in the problem areas.

Andy

Actually, the Geophagus spend all day sifting this fine gravel and they aggravate the shifting of the substrate as the water flow all pushes the gravel falling from their gills in one direction. Do you have any idea how much water flow is provided by a Vortech MP40 pump? There is a single rock in this scape for a reason . . .

rob rensen wrote:Nice fish and blue eyes 't call it but personally I wouldn't call it paradise. I don't see any hiding places, it's to open. Panaque like to hide. And you'd better use fine sand; it;s better for the cory's and geo's but the blue eyes are wonderful

I used to have a huge custom made wood cave in there and the Panaques never went in it - they only chewed on the outside - so I took it out. Their favorite place to rest is hanging or resting on wood with their head jammed where two branches meet.

Hi all,
For the great sand versus gravel debate, have a look a this post: <http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... 3&p=225167>.

Thanks Darrel for quickly reminding me why I don't like posting on forums where critics like you are quick to reinforce aquarium bulletin board dogma.

As you wish, I like to think I'm a sceptic rather than a sheep, but we probably all like to think that.

cheers Darrel

Jake,

Funny how you don't like being criticized for your setups on forums. Having been following Reefbuilders for years I know how well and frequently you are able to dish it out. It appears you can't seem to take it though.

I know exactly how much water an MP40 pushes out. I also run just about the same amount of water flow on one of my 120's with my Coralife 2900 (which costs 85% less than the Ecotech).

It's up to you whether you want to heed the advice of others. But many of the people on this forum are experts in catfish husbandry. Having kept, spawned, and raised 11 species of eartheaters, and attended countless presentations on these species in my fishkeeping career I would consider myself something of an expert on these species as well. And while they may be perfectly fine with the bigger gravel you have (since there isn't any food in the substrate for them anyways) they would likely prefer a finer substrate that can pass through their gill rakers.

Andy

with gravel their gills get damaged....a geo wants to siffer sand and will try to siffer gravel. I use fine sand, 0,4 - 0,8mm.

I'm looking out for more pics of you're blue eyes !!

Interesting display. How is the wood fixed? Larger Hatchetfish or Triportheus would look great in there, bt only if the top is not open.

Really nice looking tank, but you also should want to take into consideration the needs/wants of the fish when designing a set up.
I agree with the above posts that you should have a sand substrate, and some hiding places for the Blue Eyes and Ancistrus.
This should not be seen as a set back, but as a chance to make a good looking tank even better.

Narwhal72 wrote:Jake,
Funny how you don't like being criticized for your setups on forums. Having been following Reefbuilders for years I know how well and frequently you are able to dish it out. It appears you can't seem to take it though.
I know exactly how much water an MP40 pushes out. I also run just about the same amount of water flow on one of my 120's with my Coralife 2900 (which costs 85% less than the Ecotech).

Ah you got me! I can see how juvenile Geos would prefer a fine substrate for sifting through but the adults get plenty of food and I don't know how large you think the gravel is, but these adults sift it through their gills all day, even more as they get older.

Forgive me for my sharp response, I was quick to peg you and I am glad to see reef and freshwater crossover
Please point me to some of your work with Geophagus as I am a big fan of eartheaters. I recently picked up 6 x tapajos red heads and I am curious how well they are going to grow up with the big guys since they are 3/4" long and the adults are 6 inches +.

You can find my BAP list on the Milwaukee Aquarium Society forum. There are also a few threads on that forum about spawning Red Head Tapajos. I spawned them in the spring and summer of last year. At 3/4" it will be more than a year until they are up to spawning size. But they should start to show good color in 6 months. Spawning G. altifrons and G. abalios were more difficult but I would not say either was very hard compared to other cichlids.

I have never really had much of an aggression problem between different species of Geo's. I used to keep Red Head's and G. altifrons together as well. But they were both of similar size.

Only species I kept that was lethally aggressive to other Geo's was Geophagus dicrozoster. But it may have just been one particularly mean male as talking to others it does not seem to be as much of an issue with others who have kept the species.

Currently I am growing out Geophagus brokopondo, Acarichthys heckelli, Satanoperca jurupari "Ucayali" and Retroculus lapidifer. But I don't expect they will start spawning for another year or two yet.

Andy