When to Worry??

coffee1stlife2nd · Post by **coffee1stlife2nd** » 11 Oct 2012, 22:33

got a Gold Nugget L18 3 days ago and so far he hasn't eaten anything, he does come out after lights go out (moonlights on) he makes his rounds but doesn't eat,, ive put out Lots of food to try and peak his interest but nothing so far has worked,, Zucchini,wafers,shrimp pellets wish he would eat soon,,wake up to all food not eaten and haven't seen him poop..Thanks for any advice...

mdwflyer · Post by **mdwflyer** » 12 Oct 2012, 02:51

What are the water parameters, and tank mates?

Scleropages · Post by **Scleropages** » 12 Oct 2012, 02:51

Where did you buy the fish? If at your LFS, did you ask if it was eating? What are your water parameters (pH, temp, ammonia, at the very least)? What do you use for new tank water (tap, RO, rainwater, well water, etc.)? If it is a new import, it may take longer to begin eating. Its stomach already looks quite sunken in. Did it look like this when you bought it? There's not much you can do now except keep the water clean and keep offering foods.

BTW, the correct phrase is "pique its interest". $\M/$

coffee1stlife2nd · Post by **coffee1stlife2nd** » 12 Oct 2012, 03:28

I got GN from a Great Guy named George at A+ Tropical Fish here in Minnesota,no didnt see it eat before purchase,and that is how his belly looked when i got him, im going to try and put food in different location in tank tonight. my water is temp 80F, Ammonia 0, NitrIte 0, nitrAte 20ppm, ph 8.2 always that high no matter if i age water or not, i dont add chemicals unless i absolutely have to, im a big believer on water changes i do 50% 2 times a week with tap water in heated aged barrel. and add Prime before adding to tank. by the way tank is a 180 gallon... Thanks Tina

coffee1stlife2nd · Post by **coffee1stlife2nd** » 12 Oct 2012, 03:31

oops sorry forgot to mention tank mates are 3 little cory cats,5 long finned tetra`s and 12 Angel Fish ...

coffee1stlife2nd · Post by **coffee1stlife2nd** » 12 Oct 2012, 03:33

BTW, the correct phrase is "pique its interest".
Good to Know...

tagamasid1023 · Post by **tagamasid1023** » 12 Oct 2012, 04:30

Two months ago, I experienced something similar. I got in three wild caught L014s from an online seller. Noticed they arrived with sunken bellies but nevertheless, they looked really beautiful. They didn't ate for a week and acted strangely by swimming towards the top of the tank. Then, I noticed small white spots on them - ick!!

. Yada Yada I was able to save them. I'd say keep a close eye on them for any physical sign of disease or parasites. I am pretty sure yours is also wild caught and this is huge possibility that they could have some parasites or the seller did a not-so-well job at keeping them before selling them.

m1ke715m · Post by **m1ke715m** » 12 Oct 2012, 04:41

did you slowly acclimate the fish to your water? most likely the ph of the water he was in at the store wasnt anywhere near a ph of 8.2 if you just threw them in hard, high ph water from softer, neutral ph water you could have shocked them..

that being said, i never met a gold nugget i couldnt kill everyone i ever got the same thing happened thats happening to you so i just stopped trying to keep them. i routinely have bad luck with certain species and stop trying (any xeno, lethrinops albus, lamp caudopunks, paracyps, tropheus)

im no expert but maybe try to some live or frozen foods? some blackworms maybe.. maybe some super soft and moist krill something with a big attractant value.. most fish cant say no to krill

zeebo · Post by **zeebo** » 12 Oct 2012, 05:38

hi, I never had a gold nugget, however I recently purchased an L128,blue phantom. To get him to eat veggies, I used zucchini,skin on, but lightly 'scored' so the garlic juice could get in . I then smashed a fresh garlic clove, wait 10 minutes for the part of the clove juice to kick in, then swiped the small- cut- lengthwise zucchini with it. Then I took a small piece of garlic and stuck it in the zucchini so it was sticking up ,out of it. Turned the temp up to 82d to encourage the appetite. I did this same procedure with fresh z/g every night ,always leaving it in same place. On the 3rd night he nibbled, and by 4th he ate all the skin, and now i am able to just drop it in as he knows it is food now. I tossed the remainder of each clove in the bag with the zucchini so it would pick up the smell even in the fridge. The garlic is supposed to stimulate their appetite, same as a higer temp . HTH, I would start immediately as his tummy is already looking not so good. I suppose you can use the garlic/temp method with any food,perhaps another veggie, no matter ,just trying to get this guy to eat. .just be sure to wait the 10 min after smashing the garlic. Good luck with him, Georgie

coffee1stlife2nd · Post by **coffee1stlife2nd** » 12 Oct 2012, 06:47

Yes he is wild caught, I also acclimated him for 3 hours using the drip method in a bucket. I turned the heat up to 81 and will also try the garlic tomorrow. Tonight i put in Zucchini, shrimp pellets, wafers, and a piece of shrimp, hope he eats something. Thanks all for the advice,,,Tina
here he is in the bucket when i was acclimating him.

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 12 Oct 2012, 13:16

Tina,

The other carnivorous or omnivorous plecos mentioned in this thread are quite different from Baryancistrus which is a biofilm grazer. So the comparisons might not be the best at least from a dietary point of view and I would not jump to conclusions tha require medication.

While not ideal, I don't think the high pH is a major problem, these fishes are adaptable. What is most important is DO and temp. 80F is about a minimum. The only recorded captive spawn I am aware of was at 90F.

Keep feeding and water changing and cross your fingers. I would try adding zuchinni or sweet potato slices too. Have you read this:

http://www.planetcatfish.com/shanesworl ... cle_id=382

Hope that helps,

Jools

bassgenie · Post by **bassgenie** » 12 Oct 2012, 19:04

Have you tried Repashy? The "solient green" was well accepted with an energetic feeding response by all of my plant based plecos.

coffee1stlife2nd · Post by **coffee1stlife2nd** » 12 Oct 2012, 19:23

bassgenie wrote:Have you tried Repashy? The "solient green" was well accepted with an energetic feeding response by all of my plant based plecos.

Thank You ,,Looking at it right now..

krazyGeoff · Post by **krazyGeoff** » 12 Oct 2012, 20:01

I got one (that was well fed) at about the size of your one, and it took at least 5 days for it to eat. Even though I was using exactly the same food as the person I got it off.
I always try feeding when there are no lights on in the tank.

I have tried the reapshy Solent green and it is fantastic, except our boarder control won't let it in the country anymore. But if I lived in the USA then I would buy it by the truck load.

I am not sure if you have the JBL novo fect in the US, but this food I use for all my pleco's and the Baryancistrus seem to really enjoy it.
One of the benefits is that you can press it onto the glass and it will stick. And then because of the nature of the product it starts to dissolve and leaves a scent trail in the water. What fisherman call a burley trail.

There are other foods like this (I assume).

You can then press a disk onto the glass that is part of the fishes rounds, and when the fish is 'doing his rounds' as you say, he will discover the disk and it is kind of like a drive through takeaway for it.

These fish are very shy, and it is quite possible that it does not yet recognize the food as food. Sometimes the harder wafers do not advertise themselves that well to a fish that is expecting its food to not look like a TV dinner. In my opinion.

Cheers

coffee1stlife2nd · Post by **coffee1stlife2nd** » 12 Oct 2012, 20:17

OK i found this place http://tedsfishroom.com/store/products/ i can order it from,,any other suggestions are welcomed.. but now im wondering how long it will take to get as he doesnt look very good today looks skinnier and his color is fading and his yellow tips have faded to gray.. wish i could do something NOW for him..

m1ke715m · Post by **m1ke715m** » 12 Oct 2012, 21:50

i buy everything from ken.. im close enough to him that ups ground shows up the next day.. not sure where you are located.. hes near boston, mass

http://www.kensfish.com/repashy-super-food.html

krazyGeoff · Post by **krazyGeoff** » 12 Oct 2012, 22:23

Hi Tina,
In answer to the original question "when to worry", the answer is: I worry when the colour starts to fade.

At this point I have a 90% death rate.
What I try to do is to isolate the fish in a smaller tank, inside the main tank, that way the water and temp etc is all the same.
Everything causes stress to the fish, but in my opinion this is less stressful than moving to a separate tank.
Now I know it's Friday night where you are, so the shops might be shut etc, and there may be no hope of obtaining supplies.
A breeder net, or at last resort a big net may have to do the trick.
Then make a paste of shrimp pellets, and put that in with it. My goal at this point is to try and force feed the fish by basically having so much food in there that it eats by default.
But given my low success rate..........
Alternately you may be able to just trap the fish in a corner or something with a net, and put the food in there.
There is always a point when they will not actually want to eat anymore. And at that point the outcome is bleak.
If it is still moving around, like looking for something then, all may not be lost.

Perhaps trapping it in a corner with a net, and putting some shrimp pellets and zucchini or cucumber skin in the net may get it enough food.
The next 24 hours will be critical.

Oh and have everything as dark as possible, and try to resist checking all the time as this may also put the fish off eating.

Best of luck.

Cheers

Geoff

Coriequest · Post by **Coriequest** » 13 Oct 2012, 00:00

I have high PH water. I started using Mosura PH down (one that I bought for my shrimp tank to make it 6.4 on Ebay.) My Corey's are happy and breeding. I think 8.2 too is too high for your fish. I hope you can save it!

coffee1stlife2nd · Post by **coffee1stlife2nd** » 13 Oct 2012, 00:02

Here is what I did,, Fingers xx`ed... I got a 10 gallon put some sand from main tank and took some sponges from filter and a piece of driftwood and filled 10 gallon with water from main tank. so everything is established. Went and got a bird syringe (very little)from the vet. I crushed a wafer and couple shrimp pellets mixed it with tiny bit of aquarium water to form a paste.. caught the GN he wasnt happy he could still swim pretty fast for something that looks like its on its death bed. Anyways i held him in a wet paper towel and stuck the syringe in his mouth (i felt bad about doing this, was hoping i didnt choke him with the paste) any ways i squirted 0.2 ml down him. i didnt want to try to give to much. then i put him in 10 gl tank. i will try and give him same amount around 10pm. will see what happens...

2wheelsx2 · Post by **2wheelsx2** » 13 Oct 2012, 00:15

I'd take the temperature up to 84F or even 86F. These guys seem to like discus level temperatures. At those temps, they all seem to eat zucchini right away. But at those temps, you'll have to keep an eye on the veggies as they break down fast.

coffee1stlife2nd · Post by **coffee1stlife2nd** » 13 Oct 2012, 04:26

Just gave him his 10pm feeding, he was easier to catch, good thing for me but im sure that is a bad thing overall. gave him 0.2ml again. I was going to use left over mix from earlier but decided against it and mixed new stuff so temp would be closer to tank water temp. i put a jet in tank earlier also so when i placed him back in tank he went right in front of it and was hanging in front of flow. So the good thing is he can still attach himself to the glass, that to me is a good sign. For my 1st pleco he sure is making me work at keeping them...

zeebo · Post by **zeebo** » 13 Oct 2012, 04:47

crossing my fingers for you and this guy, just be sure to add enough air stones , esp if you raise the temp . The oxygen will be lower in a warmer tank and at night . I know you are desperate to get this guy to eat. Good luck with him, Georgie

coffee1stlife2nd · Post by **coffee1stlife2nd** » 13 Oct 2012, 08:06

Gave another 0.2ml feeding 2am...goodnight.. hope he is alive in the morning,,

coffee1stlife2nd · Post by **coffee1stlife2nd** » 13 Oct 2012, 15:51

woke up this morning and he is still alive,, he still doesn't look the greatest BUT he had a very pretty to see poop hanging from him, it was mostly dark with spaces of clear but then solid all the way through rest of it. poop went to the end of his tail fin. So i just gave him 0.3 of mix upped it a tiny bit. figure i will do this rest of today and see how he is tonight. since i dont know what im doing and dont know anything about pleco`s im afraid of killing him or harming him and now over feeding him. i will try and take pic of him later im trying not to stress him out more then i already am.

Post by **Birger** » 13 Oct 2012, 16:00

Many catfish take awhile to begin to feed when new and I personally try my best to not disturb new fish too much so it will be interesting to see if all the handling helps or hinders the fish settling in to its tank. Make sure there are still other foods available but switch it out often.

Hope the fish pulls through.

Birger

krazyGeoff · Post by **krazyGeoff** » 13 Oct 2012, 20:12

Awesome work Tina.
I have never seen or heard of an effort like this before.

Very interested to see the outcome.

Cheers

Geoff.

coffee1stlife2nd · Post by **coffee1stlife2nd** » 13 Oct 2012, 22:36

krazyGeoff wrote:Awesome work Tina.
I have never seen or heard of an effort like this before.

Very interested to see the outcome.

Cheers

Geoff.

Hopefully it will be a good outcome. George from A+ Tropical Fish and Maintenance
Plymouth,MN 55441 told me to try this, me and the fish really didnt have anything to lose by this point, so i figured i would give it a try, now that im attached to the fish it BETTER make it...

coffee1stlife2nd · Post by **coffee1stlife2nd** » 13 Oct 2012, 22:46

just a update,, feed him 0.3ml again at 4pm. i haven't seen him poop again since this morning. not sure how much plecos are supposed to poop.but his belly still seems alittle sunken but not as bad, his yellow is coming back on his top fin, thin line of yellow not much but still yellow on his back fin, but his tail fin is still grey. guess i should learn my fish anatomy instead of guessing what they are called. tonight i think i will cut him a sweet potatoe and put in pellets and shrimp pellets and a peice of shrimp in tank and see if he will feed on his own. its hard not to get attached when giving so much care..

coffee1stlife2nd · Post by **coffee1stlife2nd** » 14 Oct 2012, 10:00

it is 4am and i thought i would take a peek at him, it doesnt look like he has eaten anything i put in his tank but he does look alot fatter. i tried getting a better pic of him but my flash on cell phone kept going off but i didnt want to turn light on and scare him back to his corner so hope everyone can see him good enough.

by the way his name is TROOPER...

krazyGeoff · Post by **krazyGeoff** » 14 Oct 2012, 17:38

Well done so far.
I don't know that the piece of shrimp is going to appeal when it is this young.
Being a bio film grazer and all.
I guess it just needs to recognize the food items as food?

Cheers.

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