PlanetCatfish.com

Do you think there's any harm to having a 1.5" otto constantly riding and somewhat grazing a 13" Panaque cochliodon? The blue eye doesn't seem to mind too much

I would not think it would cause any damage unless it is continuously working on the same area of the target fish.

What a great photo opportunity that is.

Birger

Great pic--almost looks like a painting.

When I first read the title of this thread, I thought, if you change "blue" to "red", it sounds like something "adult" that I saw on the internet.

What a beautiful Panaque

Another view of the Symbiosis, strangely it's only with one of the blue eyes and not the other.

This is a little strange, although otos have been seen to feed on the mucus of discus, angels etc.

I'm not sure symbiosis would be the correct term here though, symbiosis is a mutually beneficial relationship & i cant see the benefit to the panaque...

Richard B wrote:I'm not sure symbiosis would be the correct term here though, symbiosis is a mutually beneficial relationship & i cant see the benefit to the panaque...

Well, depends on your definition of "symbiosis." Symbiosis, I believe, technically means "living together," which has a more neutral connotation. There are 3 types of "symbiosis" (considered more generally). There is "mutualism" which is the type of symbiosis which you are using, where both parties benefit. There is "commensalism" where one party benefits, but the other party is not harmed (e.g., epiphytic orchids growing on trees, the trees are usually not harmed, the orchids benefit from habitat). Then there is "parasitism," where one party benefits but the other party is harmed; the parasite may or may not kill the host.

This may be an example of commensal symbiosis.

I see similar behavior on my albino BNs sometimes. A fry will hop on the female and take a few rasps and she doesn't seem to mind; but the male doesn't put up w it at all.

Richard B wrote:i cant see the benefit to the panaque...

Keeps him free of algae?

Jools

PS This thread title IS a Doors song

If you dont mind a little advice ,remove the otto ,it could cause you a big problem
It is eating the mucus on the fish,its defensive system is being damaged and is working harder to produce more slime to recover ,this is why the otto is only on this fish.
The fish is loosing its protective coating ..
I have seen this happen with ottos a few times ..they can be a killer.

Reminds me of a shark and a remora.

Could the Otto be hungry? Mine really like zucchini and eat a lot more than other fish their size. Try more veggies, he might leave it alone ...

If you dont mind a little advice ,remove the otto ,it could cause you a big problem
It is eating the mucus on the fish,its defensive system is being damaged and is working harder to produce more slime to recover ,this is why the otto is only on this fish.
The fish is loosing its protective coating ..
I have seen this happen with ottos a few times ..they can be a killer.

If Neil commented on this then I would heed his warning. Makes me rethink my comment. If you are going to let this continue keep a close eye.

Birger

So the otto started becoming a little more persistent at riding the larger blue eye and began trying to pick at the other one too. Since it was clear that the otto was grazing a little more actively, I just removed him from the 150 gallon, sunken forrest dream Loricariidae aquarium with wet dry and canister filter, tons of wood and tons of flow, to my only other freshwater aquarium - a two gallon unfiltered bowl with a single dwarf gourami in it. At least he won't have any competition for the little algae that grows in the bowl.

Mine used to do this to The Grokefish

sojapat wrote:I have seen this happen with ottos a few times ..they can be a killer.

Stop Otto or die
Plague to panaques must end
You like my haiku?

Scleropages wrote:You like my haiku?

It's a good one, maybe add it here?

Jools

whoa

that thread is OLD, Jools.....

I even spotted myself in my former incarnation which oddly enough has a Phyllonemus typus avatar as well.

about comensalism; I've seen it happen a few times too

not with Otocinclus; these always died on me, so i stopped killing them by not buying them anymore.

but most noteworthy with Synodontis lucipinnis grazing on Triglachromis otostigma.

Not quite understanding the comment scleropages..
Do you have much experience with the little killers ?
You may make fun ...but once they get a taste for mucus they dont look for algae anymore .
I have seen them destroy tanks of fish .

Sojapat... ahh, I was just drinking bourbon and waxing poetic--not making a statement one way or the other regarding Otocinclus sp.

Jools, you're too kind. IMO, any haiku with the word "haiku" in it is to haikus what Supercuts® is to hair salons. I don't think this one is worthy of your haiku thread.

I have observed grazing behavior of my Synodontis lucipinnis on Pseudotropheus zebra. Not sure if it would be defined as commensalism or parasitism. Where exactly does one draw that line? My S. lucipinnis didn't kill the P. zebra or noticeably attribute to a decline in its health, however, as Sojapat does point out, it can be weakening the immune system of the "host" fish. It's probably impossible to quantify the amount of stress put on the "host" fish besides observing it and noting it's habits (i.e.-feeding? swimming? how are fins held? etc.).

Jake, can you get him an air stone? I think it would help.