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Greetings. I hope this post is appropriate, here. Just looking for a place to show off. lol. Over the past few months I have divested myself of most of my livebearers in an effort to start attempting to spawn species that I have been wanting to do for years. These include wild bettas, paradise fish and gouramis. Since I have Mark Denaro nearby, I have acquired some beautiful wild species of all of those. Additionally, the famed Rosario La Corte has offered to serve as my mentor in the area of tetras. Can't do much better than that. I am actively gathering up rare species of those and am expecting a visit from Rosario in the very near future.

In the interim, I have been trying my hand at Pencil Fish. I have around 100 N. mortanthaleri and have set up 8 spawning groups of those. Additionally I have 60 or so of the absolutely stunning Purple Pencil - N. rubrocaudatus and will be setting those up, this week.

They are a distinct challenge, but well worth the effort. Cheers. - Frank

Lovely! I have just got a couple of fry from N. beckforidi - I know, nothing special, but despite a long time keeping fish, I only just got "into" pencilfish.

--
Mats

MatsP wrote:Lovely!

They sure are.

I have just got a couple of fry from N. beckforidi - I know, nothing special,

They're all special and if you can do one, you gotta figure you can do them all. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it. lol.

but despite a long time keeping fish, I only just got "into" pencilfish.

And so, the addiction begins. Cheers. - Frank

I have also a group of N.Rubrocaudatus. Till now i have not seen any activity of spawning, unfortunately.

How is it going in your tank?

NielsV wrote:I have also a group of N.Rubrocaudatus. Till now i have not seen any activity of spawning, unfortunately. How is it going in your tank?

Hi. I still have not managed to find the time to set them up, by there is distinct spawning activity taking place in the group tank. I hope to get a few groups set up, over the next few days. Cheers. - Frank

Do you have some information how you breed the N.Morthenhalerie? Temp, parameters etc....

NielsV wrote:Do you have some information how you breed the N.Morthenhalerie? Temp, parameters etc....

Hi. I keep a group 10 with a 50/50 sex-ratio in a 10 USG tank. It is thickly stuffed with java moss, has a fine sand bottom and one sponge filter. The tank is unheated, so the temp fluctuates between 68 and 72, this time of year and around 4 degrees warmer in the summer months. The pH averages 7.0 and the TDS is around 120.

Spawning activity is quite noticeable. After 2 days I pull the adults and move them to identical set-up to continue the process. The only way I have been able to get fry to survive is by using the micro-organisms that grow on leaf litter as an initial found source.

I hope this helps. Cheers. - Frank

You find some spawning reports of the rubrocaudatus? You hope/think that there spawning just like the morthenhalerie?

I read some article that the rubrocaudatus have been catched by Ph 5.5 and TDS around 20. But for the rest there is less information about this fish.

About 3 weeks i get some new rubrocaudatus to increase my group, +- 10 fish. Than i have a total of 20 rubrocaudatus. Than they get there own tank for breeding, fingers crossed.

NielsV wrote:You find some spawning reports of the rubrocaudatus? You hope/think that there spawning just like the morthenhalerie?

Greetings. A member of CW sent me the following information when I inquired if anyone could provide a few tips on spawning this species:

"I set up a tank 29x9x9in filled with r/o water i boil a kettle of r/o and pour over almond leaf leaving for about 24hrs i add this dark water to tank making a nice tea colour. I build up both ends leaving middle clear i use mops on the bottom with floating over so each end is completely covered. I personally use a new knitting yarn that is a superb substitute for java moss. I use one male with three females i feed with a few white worm each day in clear space in middle. You may not see actual spawning but i am certain with your experience you should know if they are spawning. The first fry should begin to appear after about 12 days the best time to check is as it begins to go dark in your fish room they can be seen at the surface and can be netted and removed to a container let them swim out of the net no damage is coursed. This sequence can continue for up six weeks or when production falls off. Some days you may only get a couple other days you can get maybe a dozen or so depends how you much time you have it can be very time consuming and a lot of patience is needed. When i have 20to30in the container i transfer into small tank with small sponge filter. On my last sequence i was able to transfer 190 however when they were moved to their final growing on tank this was down to 157 so some small losses do happen in early days. However once moved into final growing tank no further losses occur."

I read some article that the rubrocaudatus have been catched by Ph 5.5 and TDS around 20.

While that may be true, in my personal experience, most species have a fairly forgiving range of water parameters in which they are more likely to spawn, then not. I generally start my spawning attempts in my generic water conditions. While I will make attempts to vary those parameters to a point, I do not have the time or stamina to jump through hoops to spawn any species of fish, so with that being said, I generally don't even attempt to spawn species that I can predetermine have no chance of spawning in my water.

Additionally, I am quite certain that based upon coloration and behavior, that these fish are actively spawning in my tanks, presently. I'm determined to segregate a few groups but there are only so many hours in the day. This week, for sure.

But for the rest there is less information about this fish.

I believe that Heiko Bleher has an article on these fish in either an upcoming or the current issue of PFK.

About 3 weeks i get some new rubrocaudatus to increase my group, +- 10 fish. Than i have a total of 20 rubrocaudatus.

I am expecting another 80 on the 18th to add to the 60 that I currently have. Yes, addiction is a terrible thing.

Than they get there own tank for breeding, fingers crossed.

Please keep me/us apprised of any pertinent observations of potential spawnings. I promise to do the same. Cheers. - Frank

Some pictures of my fish.
Male.

Just arrived.

Greetings. They certainly are a beautiful species. Good luck with them. Cheers. - Frank

Hi Frank,

Good luck with breeding these Pencilfish. Both species are on my "To do" list.
I have tried two groups of N. mortenthaleri and underestimated the intraspecific aggression intensity both times. I will give them much more room next time. 10 N. mortenthaleri in a 20H was not enough room.

I have yet to get any N. rubrocaudatus and I do not know if this is correct but I get the impression that their aggression level is a little closer to that of N. trifasciatus. I definitely plan to try one of these again and I think the next time it will be N. rubrocaudatus. I wish you the best success.

I have bred a couple other Pencilfish; N. beckfordi(easy) and N.marginatus.
I only saved a handful of N. marginatus fry but raised hundreds of beckfordi.

I also have raised about 3 species of Copella/Pyrrhulina. This family of fish, the Lebiasinidae, are one of my favorites.
I haven't bred the more common Copella arnoldi, Splash Tetra yet but have bred and raised C. cf. nattereri and C. cf. nigrofaciata and one Pyrrhulina cf rachoviae types.

All these produce minute fry and Pencilfish just have soda straw mouths so their fry seem to require infusoria for a long time compared to Copella types.
I have currently been attempting to breed Copella spilota but so far no luck.

apistomaster wrote:Hi Frank,

Greetings.

Good luck with breeding these Pencilfish. Both species are on my "To do" list.

Thanks. Have been pulling fry on the Coral Reds, regularly, but have not officially set up the Purples. It's quite obvious that they are spawning on their own, with no input from me. lol.

I have tried two groups of N. mortenthaleri and underestimated the intraspecific aggression intensity both times. I will give them much more room next time. 10 N. mortenthaleri in a 20H was not enough room.

That has not been my experience at all. I have 40 Reds in a 20 USG long and they get along, just fine. While the largest males will feign aggression, it' all bluster and no bite. I keep 20 Purples in a 10 USG, with room to spare with no aggression whatsoever. They are as happy and as healthy as any fish in my room.

I have yet to get any N. rubrocaudatus and I do not know if this is correct but I get the impression that their aggression level is a little closer to that of N. trifasciatus.

I don't see any true aggression with any of the Pencils I have kept. Just a lot of showing-off. I've never seen a nipped fin or a missing scale - ever.

I definitely plan to try one of these again and I think the next time it will be N. rubrocaudatus.
I wish you the best success.

Thanks. I'm confident that they won't be a significant challenge and if they are, so much the better. I like a challenge.

I have bred a couple other Pencilfish; N. beckfordi(easy) and N.marginatus.
I only saved a handful of N. marginatus fry but raised hundreds of beckfordi.

Nice fish, all.

I also have raised about 3 species of Copella/Pyrrhulina. This family of fish, the Lebiasinidae, are one of my favorites.
I haven't bred the more common Copella arnoldi, Splash Tetra yet but have bred and raised C. cf. nattereri and C. cf. nigrofaciata and one Pyrrhulina cf rachoviae types.

All these produce minute fry and Pencilfish just have soda straw mouths so their fry seem to require infusoria for a long time compared to Copella types.
I have currently been attempting to breed Copella spilota but so far not luck.

Outside of the Splash Tetras, of which I have 40 on order, I have absolutely no idea what any of those fish are. lol.

Good to hear from you. Cheers. - Frank

I definitely had intense aggression among my N. mortenthaleri to the point of resulting in deaths. In many fish such aggression may be over come by higher stocking densities.
This is a young pair of Copella spilota.

apistomaster wrote:I definitely had intense aggression among my N. mortenthaleri to the point of resulting in deaths.

Hi Larry. I'm sure you did. I was simply relating my experience.

In many fish such aggression may be over come by higher stocking densities.

Yes, I believe that is where the saying, "The more, the merrier," originated.

This is a young pair of Copella spilota.

Very, pretty. Cheer. - Frank

For the first time i spot some young rubrocaudatus. They are around 0.5cm .

How is it going there?