Need Help on New L183's

[icantquit]

Hello all, Me and a buddy purchased a total of 20 L183 from a really known seller on aquabid. Well, lets just say these are the last of them. I was told from the person I bought them from to use salt and tetracycline, but this has not improve their condition at all. As you can see, some of the fish has some sort of white patchy almost like callous on their back, other do not. Here is the video link http://youtu.be/hB1dJLHGes8 Let me know how I can treat this.. A Big Thanks to you guys!

[icantquit]

Any body? err

1. Water parameters
a) Temerature range. 78-80
b) pH. 7.8
c) GH. unsure (tds however reads 220)
d) KH unsure (tds reads 220)
e)Ammonia 0, Nitrate 0, Nitrite 0, levels. <--now this is on api test kit... I also have a tetra master test kit that reads nitrate a higher yellow.. you know the yellow that might turn orange anyday now..but they get a 20-30% water change every day so I see it shouldnt matter much..err
f) Water change frequency, 20-30% water change slowly drip over time,
(Most LFS's will check your water and give a list of readings).

2. Tank set up
a) Size. They were seperated 5 to a 20 gallon until recently..when they started dying on one by one... now they're in a 5 gallon with just 3 gallons of water...this helps me monitor them closely. I have not had a death since..but the patchy thingy are still there which haunts me...
b) Substrate. None
c) Filtration. In the 4 20 gallons I used hydro 5 sponge filters from fully cycled tanks, now that they are in a 5 gallon bucket, just a air stone.
d) Furnishings. Nothing.. just the fish and the airstone in a 5 gallon bucket now...
e) Other tank mates. none
f) How long has it been set-up? two 20s was set up for 2 months, two was set up for 1 month, All with aged/cycled water from my 75 gallon L46 tanks, along with one or two smaller driftwood and a hydro 5 in each tank all coming from the same tank to help seed the water.. I have done this in the pass with no prob. I made sure all water tested good before using them to start off...This tank I would say have the safest water to start out a new tank with..I make sure to test this tank atleast twice a month. This tank has my L46 that is currently producing for me..so I pay close attention to it...
g) When was the last new fish added? No new fishes... just these guys when they arrived...
h) Foods used and frequency? (was feeding them algae waffers once every night, but no real food takers, had to siphone them out every morning)

3. Symptoms / Problem description: View video please, when I first recieved the fishes, they had red markings all over the head with white patches (not like fungus) but white patches like callous or scabs or a good way to describe them is a this dust like layer over the whole entire body to the point where it looks like its its own layer...The first two died the first two day they arrived... I contacted the seller right away..


4. Action taken (if any): Contacted the seller, he sent me another 10 smaller ones...which looked healthy, but most are dead as we speak. I looked closely on a dead one and saw that the stomach had these round moving things inside of it..up and down..(just plain nasty) Any how the ones that are still alive was moved into a 5 gallon bucket where I am currently medicating them with tetracycline and salt. I should really move on to something else...but not sure of what because tetracycline has not seemed worked for me yet...

5. Medications used (if any): The person I bought it from recommended Teteracycline and salt, so thats what I have been using...following the dose chart of tetracycline..and about 1/4 teaspoon of salt per gallon...

Not sure what else to do....please help!

[MatsP]

Whilst posting a youtube video of fish doing something is a valuable key to understanding some sort of behaviour, when it comes to analysing an illness, it is probably best to have a clear, still photo. One problem with video is that it's not as clear (because of the way that video is being compressed so that it can be distributed over the internet).

I think a quarter teaspoon per gallon is fairly mild dose of salt - it probably does absolutely nothing from a medical perspective.

Tetracycline is a broad spectrum antibiotic, but I expect that your fish is suffering from a parasitic infection, so probably why it's not helping.

I would be tempted to treat with a white-spot medication (that isn't copper based!) - I don't think your fish has whitespot, but it is a similar class of parasite (probably, given that I can't actually see anything useful in the video other than "Ancistrus in a bowl").

Having said all that, it's almost certain to be best to identify the illness FIRST, then medicate.

--
Mats

[RickE]

Any body? err

a good way to describe them is a this dust like layer over the whole entire body to the point where it looks like its its own layer..]

This sounds like velvet. As an example, follow this link and see if the picture of the clown loach looks like what your fish have http://www.fishdeals.com/fish_diseases/oodinium_velvet/.

Larry (Apistomaster) has a routine system of medication for wild caught fish aimed at eradicating parasites etc. that they tend to come in with. It's on PC somewhere (I'll see if I can find it) or you could PM him.

[Linus_Cello]

Larry (Apistomaster) has a routine system of medication for wild caught fish aimed at eradicating parasites etc. that they tend to come in with. It's on PC somewhere (I'll see if I can find it) or you could PM him.

Here is one thread that mentions the 3 medicines Larry uses: praziquantel, flubendazole and metronidaz
http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... =5&t=29153

[icantquit]

Hey Mat what type of meds would you recommend, and also I will try my best to place them all in a fish tank and take a photo of each individuals. Sad, but in a way I think the seller knew they were sick before shipping them out....

[MatsP]

I agree with the Praziquantel, Flubendazole and Metrondiazole (or close relatives of these). You can use all three or just one or two (all three will be "safer"). I think "Jungle Parasite Clear" or some such contains a couple of them.

--
Mats

[Barbie]

While those three medications will be effective at removing internal parasites, they are going to do very little for oodinium or chilodonella, IMO. I use the pond product called ProForm C, with daily water changes with great results. The salt dose is not going to help the fish any, IMO, if they do have external parasites. Do you notice any erosion of the tissue between the fin rays?

Barbie

[icantquit]

Hey Barbie when I was looking at these guys(the dead ones) under the microscope (100x), I did however see bugs crawling back and fourth on the tail. Looks kinda like spiders without the long legs. They are in metronidazole and praziquantel right now... two have passed since the post...I'll take your recommendation of ProForm C. Ill have to pick that up somewhere... Thanks for all the help. Just hope to now to get atleast a trio out of these guys...