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Several years ago, loads of so-called L173/399/400 appeared on the market. This was before the ban, and among them were some individuals which looked different from L399/400; they had more pointy heads, tiny eyes and I believe they didn't reach the same size. Compared to L174 they often show a more striped pattern too.

I discussed the issue with Janne E. back then, and I understood there's a mimicry species of Hypancistrus found with L174. I have some pics of what I think is this species, and some thoughts on this species would be nice. It seems to me it has mostly passed under the radar in our hobby, as there's barely any mention of it anywhere. In my personal photo collection I have several good photos, mostly from Asian traders, which show the distinct features of this species more clearly than my own photos do. There are even photos published by acknowledged aquarists showing this species with a wrong label, but I don't have the copyright to post them here. I do have a couple of personal photos to share though:

this is the species I'm talking about


and I THINK this may the same, though it's not the best example


Hopefully some of the experts can weigh in on this subject, and tell us more about them.

Haakon

I think these are the same, from rva.jp;








Haakon

Hi,

this is also one of them:



I keep this one for 3 years. It was in the same Import as the fish I call Hypancistrus sp. (L 333 sim 236) (was very easy to separate :



In my opinion, this "mimic" variant is also a transitional form. Perhaps between L 174 and L 400. Body shape is close to L 400, but the growth rate is like L 174.

Regards

Hi HaakonH and Pleco 22,

I do own a couple of these, wild, i classify them under L400. Is it ok to place them under L400?
They came in with big L400 at 3.5 to 4.5 inches. That was why i label them as L400, however, this new thread brought some light and i begin to suspect they are not.
They have thick wavy short line plus big spots and most do not grow big. Maximum around 2.5 to 3 inch. Females are gravid at 2.5 inch. Please advice.

Here are some photos:

Hi Johannes,

L400 is a different species, so I think you should call them Hypancistrus sp."Mimic" instead. Since they usually came from Brazil in mixed shipments, I fear many aquarists have already crossbred them with L399/400. That's why I think it's about time we shed some light on them, and recognize them as a separate species/form How many offspring per clutch have yours had?

I still think that pictures of specimens of H.sp."Mimic" show enough variation to make me wonder a little about how to really define them, but the main traits people should look out for are: very small eyes, pointy head and small adult size. Pattern varies, but usually they are more striped than dotted.

Haakon

I only have 1 pair trapping for 1 month but no result, they are still trapping as i type...

I will separate the rest and start another breeding colony for them.

I have gotten them this year Feb and they don't seem to grow longer, so you were saying they will stay at that size?

So as you can see from the pictures, they are confirm not L400?
H. sp "Mimic", sounds funny haha...

To me it seems this species is fullgrown at about 8 cm/3-4 inches, but I really don't have enough data to confirm this with certainty. And as far as yours are concerned, I would really like the input of Pleco22 or Janne E to say for sure they are mimics, but it definately seems like it Let's hope you will succeed breeding them!

Haakon

Even at a reliable site like l-welse.com the mimic has sneaked in! This picture by A.Werner is labelled L400, but look at the tiny eyes and the pointy snout; it's a "mimic"!

http://www.l-welse.com/reviewpost/showf ... Andre1.jpg

smaller version of pic:



Haakon

Haakon,
Yes, there are a mimic species living together with L174 in Xingu, your seconed picture in the first post is for sure the mimic but the first pic is taken in a bad angle so I will not say it's the mimic. In your second post from the Japanese page and first pic is also the mimic but the other 2 pics is of "lower xingu" varities, the pic () in catelog is also the mimic. pleco22's second pic is the mimic but the first pic is not, johannes first and second pic is the mimic but the other pictures is not good enough to really tell for sure what they are even if the first 2 pics is from these specimens, last post and André Werner's pic is also the mimicry find together with L174.

Janne

Moving fish out of quarantine, I've found this guy.

Yes, the mimic, quite sure you got it once with L174.

Janne

Yes Janne that is correct.
I've found two of them mixed with the L174.

What should we do with them?

Keep them as a separate species, look around for more now that you know what to look for and how to ID them, creating a breeding group could be possible!

Haakon

HaakonH wrote:Keep them as a separate species, look around for more now that you know what to look for and how to ID them, creating a breeding group could be possible!

Haakon

I like your style

Yes, keep them separate and they will grow up to one of the most beautiful Hypancistrus species you have had... in my eyes they are more beautiful than H. zebra and they will be really black and white as adults.

Janne

Perhaps it should be added to the cat-eLog, to make people more aware of them and to avoid further undesired crossbreeding in the future?

Haakon

Guys,

Just want to unearth this topic again. Now we've all had these fishes for a longer time. Do we still think they merit their own cat-elog entry? Has any more been learned about them? New pics of some of these smaller fishes you guys had?

Cheers,

Jools

Jools,

To me this is a species/form that has recognizeable traits, which justifies it's own place in the register. I haven't found more pics myself, but as this thread shows, some pics are already available and I think some of them should be possible to add to the cat-eLog?

As far as information about them is concerned, this thread seem to contain some valuable information. If more is needed, I think Janne is the man to bring it to the table - he's the one who made me aware of them in the first place

Haakon

This below is the adult of the mimic, some pictures in this thread show the mimic and others show species from belo Monte area (lower xingu) around 30-40km from where L174 and the mimic are found. Semi adult. I have more pics saved on my external hard drives, here or in Sweden in my backups.

Janne

"NOW" I know what you mean by keep them separate and they will grow up to one of the most beautiful Hypancistrus species you have had... in my eyes they are more beautiful than H. zebra and they will be really black and white as adults.

Unungy wrote:"NOW" I know what you mean by keep them separate and they will grow up to one of the most beautiful Hypancistrus species you have had... in my eyes they are more beautiful than H. zebra and they will be really black and white as adults.

Hi Saul,

I guess I can hope that a possibility that some of my lower xingu hypans might turn out that good.

Cheers,
Marte

I've asked Janne for some pics for a new species entry.

Jools

Good move, Jools I think it's just right to give this form it's own profile. There's already (at least) a pic of it in the Cat-eLog that can be moved to it's profile; the main/1st pic of .

Haakon

Janne wrote:the pic (

L287

) in catelog is also the mimic.

Are you REALLY sure? Because that is the original L287 pic. That would therefore mean the mimic = L287 and so I don't need the new species entry I just created...

Jools

The pic of in the Cat-elog is not the mimic, the eyes are too big and the snout has the wrong shape. I'm sure Janne got things mixed up a bit when he wrote his answer

Jools, would you like some more species data to add to the profile?

Haakon

The pic of L287 in the Cat-elog is not the mimic, the eyes are too big and the snout has the wrong shape. I'm sure Janne got things mixed up a bit when he wrote his answer

I agree... was probably a little confused when I wrote that and I don't remember why I should have wrote it either.

Janne

Hi,

sorry, I get a little bit confused about H. sp. "mimic". Could you please provide more info to separate them from L 174 or L 400. This picture
http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/im ... ge_id=5877
was sorted as L 345 for years, why this fish should be H.Sp. mimic?

Cheers

Felix,

Compared to L174:
H.sp."Mimic" (or as it's listed here) grows bigger and has a longer, flatter body. It also tends to show more short lines and stripes in it's pattern than L174, which is mostly spotted.

Compared to L400:
H.sp."Mimic" has smaller eyes and a flatter, more pointy head. According to Janne, L400 occurs around Belo Monte, 30-40 km from the location of L174 and H.sp."Mimic". This pic of "L400" from l-welse.com actually shows H.sp."Mimic":

http://www.l-welse.com/reviewpost/showf ... Andre1.jpg

Compared to L345:
H.sp."Mimic" has smaller eyes and a flatter, more pointy head. This is based on the original pic of L345 presented in DATZ:

http://www.l-welse.com/reviewpost/showf ... =345bg.jpg

I don't believe the pics of are similar enough to the original pic to be accepted as pics of L345, but I'll leave that up to Jools and Janne.

Haakon

I'm quite sure I found some more mimic-pics in the Cat-eLog. Look at the size and position of the eyes, and the headshape. I'd like some input from Janne on this before they are moved though.

http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/im ... ge_id=7727

http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/im ... ge_id=7726

http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/im ... ge_id=7728

Haakon