PlanetCatfish.com

Weird thing, which has happened to two of my tanks now...

Within a week of setting up, having added gravel from a more established tank, using water from the same, and treating any tap water added with conditioner and bio supp's, something strange happens. I see an opaque, dense, stringy "fuzz" on everything. It's on the glass (scraped off already), substrate, driftwood, and every rock. It is colorless and stumped the LFS the last time it happened. Last time I treated with maracyn in the event that it was bacterial, and vacuumed the gravel to remove the bulk of it. For the most part, it didn't return, but I also, sadly, killed a pair of zipper loaches in the process. All I have in this new tank are a few rasboras and pristellas, which I moved from an even less ideal tank.

Anyone know what this stuff is, and if I should be doing something differently, if anything?

I should add, the water, as of yesterday, is immensely cloudy. I had chalked this up to the presence of clay in the tank, but I'm not so sure. The ammonia tests out as 0ppm, today and yesterday. Nitrites were safe, but nitrates have not been tested.

Not the best photos, but maybe helpful:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kozadinos/ ... hotostream#
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kozadinos/ ... hotostream#

Do you have anythinng living in the tank (on purpose, rather than whatever is on your glass)?

If you have no stock in the tank, I expect no ammonia is simply that there never was any in the first place...

I'm not sure what the white stuff is...

--
Mats

I have the three rasboras and two pristellas in there, both to provide a minimal ammonia supply and to get them out of the 5.5 gal, which was causing obvious stress. No plants yet, as I was told it might be a few weeks to a month or more before the nitrates are really available in any quantity that would allow them to be healthy. I used donor water and have sacks of gravel in there from the bigger tank, which also had this problem - albeit a while ago.

Should I do a heavy gravel vac and suck most of it up? I was going to throw a few goldfish in there for a few weeks to facilitate the cycling, before the plants go in. Being goldfish, they survived it before, along with the maracyn, which may or may not have even been applicable to the problem.

It really seemed algae-like on the glass, as I could see filaments swaying with the current before I cleaned it off. I had green algae of one sort or another on the glass a while back in the 5.5 gal, so I have seen the more normal variety, but this is not green at all.

Thanks,
Anthony

Anthonyck wrote:No plants yet, as I was told it might be a few weeks to a month or more before the nitrates are really available in any quantity that would allow them to be healthy.

That's actually a bit backwards, as plants prefer to uptake free ammonia rather than the more difficult to utilize nitrite or nitrate. Hence the reason why planted tank enthusiasts do not "cycle" tanks. The plants help skip the cycle by sucking up the ammonia.

Huh. Thanks. I had been told that the plants wouldn't have anything on which to feed until the bacteria matured. In my small tank, I had both hornwort and another unidentified plant die off within a week of starting up. I have 4 varieties growing nicely in my larger tank, but added them one at a time or so, and many weeks after the tank had been set up.

If you had a low bioload to start and your put in fast growers, that might happen just because they run out of nutrients. Either way, it doesn't hurt to plant later, my point is that you don't need to wait if you don't want to.

A little research (and a biologist in the office) lent itself to suggest that the problem is a bacterial bloom. Hence, maybe maracyn was the right move. Would treating with that in this tank destroy all the friendly bacteria and also foul up my Bio-Wheel?

I wouldn't treat such an bacterial bloom - it is most likely a sign that you have (despite your test results) ammonia in the tank that is being consumed by oppurtunistic bacteria that blooms. Treating with "medication" when there is no illness in the fish isn't a good idea - even if it doesn't harm the filter bacteria, etc.

--
Mats

Agreed, as far as the plant nutrients you can get "Flourish" tablets to boost initial plant growth and a trick that works for me is to trim back the roots a little bit, not only does it make them easier to plant but pressures them to promote root growth so they don't use up all the stored nutrients trying to adjust to new enviroment.Enjoy

I appreciate the help, guys. Sounds like adding plants sooner than later won't hurt anything (or, in fact, help). Also, should I wait on plopping the goldfish in there, or could they actually help speed up the process further to overcome the bloom?

Adding more fish seems like a bad idea. You'll most likely have to fight ammonia levels if you do that, which you don't need in a newly set up tank...

--
Mats

I think you have a variation of a new tank syndrome going on where you get a free floating bacterial bloom. I happen to have a very similar problem with an established 40 breeder that I set back by only running a new filter but with the tank stocked. The ecology of the tank is basically too simple. Adding plants can help speed you through this outbreak but it can be difficult to get under control. I can change 3/4 of the water every day and get the water clear only to wake up the next day to a tank just as cloudy as before. Plants will help take up some of the excess nutrients on which the bacteria are using. Adding an already fully cycled filter from another tank can also help. Add some live black worms to increase the biodiversity. The worst that happens is your fish get some live food.
I have had this last up to 6 weeks in bad cases and my present problem is looking to last as long as any I have had before. I eventually get it eliminated but it does stress the fish because it extends the cycling process. The usual medications like potassium permanganate, antibiotics or flocculation agents do not seem to be of much use. You may find that peat filtration will alter the conditions to being less conducive to the organism's growth. That is my next thing to try on my own problem. It may be a combination of a bacterial bloom and a Didymosphenia geminata, commonly known as didymo or rock snot-like problem.
Didymosphenia geminata is a diatom species. It can easily be taken for a slimy algae.
Nothing eats this crud. I have added a very old and well established large sponge filter today and last week I added a lot of Hornwort because it grows fast and eats into the food sources for the bloom. I have been changing the water, 2/3 every day to every other day. It has been about a month so I expect it to go away soon but it isn't just ugly, it can stress some fish enough to kill them.

I agree with apistomaster that it could be a bloom. I had an established 10 gallon and changed to another 10 gallon using all the water, substrate, and decor from the original tank. For some reason the water got milky and the glass was covered with a thin white layer. I have white sand in the tank so I figured it was just because everything got stirred up and just needed to settle but the white stuff got worse. After a couple water changes there was no improvement so I cleaned the glass by rubbing my hands all over the glass and then I did a good vac. I replaced the water with water from my big display tank and it's now been two days and the ten gallon is still clear.

The small tank has no filter but it never had a filter to begin with so I know that wasn't the problem. If this water change solved it, I would assume the only answer would be the tannins from the water in my display tank killed off the bloom. Maybe the fact that the water has a brown tea like tint blocked enough light to stop the cycle???

The strange thing is that this happened in the first place. The only thing that was different was the actual tank. Everything else including the water came from the original ten gallon tank.

Sounds right-on. "Rock snot" sounds very appropriate, as the rocks I was pulling out yesterday to clean off were like handling smooth ice cubes. I vac'd the gravel, cleaned off the larger stones with water, and changed out 10 gal of water, which works out to more than 50% with all the stones and driftwood in there. We will see what it looks like whe. I get to work. I will definitely add some plants today.

So, the two tanks that had this problem both included rocks that had originally been in the 29 gal, and then thrown in a bucket in someone's basement for a few years before they gave me everything and I set that tank back up. I cleaned things, but not with any chemicals, and I did not boil the rocks, fearing cracking or such when they cooled down. Tis tank has a good amount of those rocks, and they were only rinsed and scrubbed with tap water. The biologist I mentioned, shaking her head disapprovingly, suggested that spores can live for decades on a dry rock, waiting for some moron to throw them into a biotope. Then they break the champagne and party. Odd that your experience was with a bare tank.

The spores for this bacteria may also have come from the air! In fact, I'd suggest that MORE likely. You are not the first to have some sort of bacterial bloom in a tank - but I doubt all of the people that suffer from this have tanks containing stones that have previously been in a tank... So my guess is that the bacteria that causes these sort of problems "is everywhere" - they just normally don't "bloom" like this, because the conditions for a bloom isn't there.

--
Mats

My tank which is blooming a cloudy bacteria population explosion is not bare. It has been set up for years with the same ~1/4" layer of FloraBase. What I did to set this off was not to leave the one established sponge filter and installed a never been use 20 pores per inch open cell sponge strip wrapped around the core of the pedestal type sponge filter which is powered my a 160 gph Power head. This coarse sponge filter does not really begin to work well until the surface of the material develops a bio-film and accumulates a little detritus. It allows the free floating bacteria to recycle through the still too clean sponge. I did replace the aged sponge filter which is my normal arrangement and it runs using the fine pore sponge in the air lift mode. I changed 2/3 the water and added the old sponge filter yesterday so it is too soon to expect the bloom to go away but this should speed up passage through this ecological succession gone awry.

My reasoning about trying peat filtration for your case is that peat has some bacteriostatic properties which could cause the underpinning environment the bacteria is thriving on to change to become more hostile to it. These white bacterial cloudy blooms are made up of bacteria which are feeding on the available organic wastes and to a degree, the minerals dissolved in the water and are not dependent upon light. These are non-photosynthetic bacteria. The slime is a different matter. It is probably diatomaceous and many diatoms do have photosynthetic abilities. Peat filtration can adversely affect the environment for the diatoms, too. If you try peat you only need to use it long enough to break the vicious cycle that is going on. They also utilize trace amounts of free silica they extract from the water to built their glass houses. That is why sometimes making the water changes can often extend the duration of the bloom. Eventually the bloom will go away if it is starved. The use of peat might make life more difficult and speed up this phase.

Not that it really matters where the bacteria come from but they are a ubiquitous organism present in virtually any aquatic environment. The problem is one of which organism is best suited for the environment at this phase of the tank's life at this time. Most of the time it is displaced by more desirable bacteria, algae and higher plants. Just every so often what is the normal ecological succession of communities of microorganisms deviates from the norm and you get the persistent bloom but it will go away. Mine is simply a bacterial bloom but my take based on your photos is that you have two different problems, bacterial and diatoms. The what they are really doesn't matter very much since this is just a stage that will be left behind eventually. Non-sterile tank furnishings could have just as easily been helpful by introducing more desirable microorganisms but whose to say whether the organism was always present, was introduced by your hands, a net, a fish, a plant or from the air? I never disinfect my furnishings unless I know I am moving something from a tank with sick fish or Hydra, anything living that is undesirable. In such a case I would have simply bleached everything, rinse well then dip in a bucket of water which has a tsp of Prime or any other concentrated, one drop per gal dechlorinating water conditioner. Could have come from anywhere. It is basically just bad luck that these annoying and unsightly life forms took hold instead of those associated with the more normal succession. Every new tank and any existing one which has suffered some kind of setback or a drastic change in conditions enough to set it back to beginning conditions has to go through an ecological succession. For an analogy, I present you with the example of a newly planted garden where you did everything the way you have many times before but this time, for some reason, the weeds quickly over took the desired plants.
Since I have been fighting my problem as long as you have. I believe we should both be closer to the next and clear water stage in the evolution of the new aquarium ecology.
My tank is a newly set up Leopard frog Pleco(L134) breeding tank. Rather than using peat filtration as I suggested to you, I just tossed a hand full of Ketapang or Cattapa leaves. They have similar attributes as peat.

Today I sucked out 5 gal, taking as much as bad stuff with me as possible, then added 5 gal slightly cooler tap water, then sucked out another 2.5 gal and as much floating debris as I could, then added that much back again. Treated with conditioner and bio supplement (both Stress-Coat brand) and salt.

Here's a shot after the change (yes, I need to bring my camera to work next time):

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kozadinos/ ... hotostream#

Added some Java Moss, vallisneria, and bacopa today. That should starve the bacteria well enough. I also saw some really nice adult harlequin rasboras that would be nice to add to the small group of three in there. Let's hope I get this over with before they are gone.

My tank looked just like your pic. It's still a little cloudy but it's way better than it was. I couldn't understand it but I'm thinking for some reason there must have been something on the inside of the glass that came to life once I filled the tank. It was a new tank from the LFS and I washed it with warm tap water but obviously that didn't do much.

I've done two more water changes using water from my display tank and it seems to get better with each change. The only issue I have now is the crayfish in the tank have the slime on them and I'll have to give them a good washing. They all seem to be fine except they look like they had a cotton ball fight. One molted so that one looks like a new penny

After no activity since the small water change on Saturday, I see a remarkable improvement. There is still some slime where I couldn't get it vac'd and I expect a bit of it to stick around, but the water is nearly transparent now, where I couldn't see more than two inches deep least week. The small group of fish seem well and I may soon round out each group at six apiece.

I still have cloudy water although now it is now tea colored cloudy water due to the addition of the Cattapa leaves. However, the fish appear to be more comfortable as they now have their color back. I had hoped the leaves would cause the bacteria to die but no signs of that yet. This tank's water will ultimately clear up but I am out of tricks other than keep changing water and wait it out. I am approaching the 6th week of this bacterial bloom.
It is tempting to "nuke it" with the powerful broad spectrum antibiotic, chloramphenicol. I use it only when I receive a large number of Tetras with clear cut cases of Columnaris, a round, Cocci-type bacteria, Flexibacter columnaris infections. These cocci bacteria are so small they have to be stained and viewed using the microscope's oil immersion lens at 1000X magnification. The cloudy water is usually caused by a non-pathogenic, flagellated, rod shaped Bacilli.

It is strange how every tank has it's own course and how using the same approach can occasionally result in one of these persistent blooms while all the rest are crystal clear.