Discus and ABN pleco?

[ginagv]

I have been thinking about changing around the specimens I'm keeping in my 55 gallon. Presently I have 4 angelfish, which I bought at the same time when they were very small. My initial idea was they would eventually make a pair and I would return the other 2 to the fish store. My hope was that the paired angels would live peacefully.. only getting aggressive when they were breeding (which I was supposing my cories and female cherry barbs would eat in the night). I didn't want babies really just a peaceful tank. Well, the angels have other ideas. They are basically being difficult.. continually sniping at each other.. So.. here's what I was thinking.. and where you all come in....

I was thinking about taking all of the angels back and getting a couple of Discus... I read they are a very peaceful, calm fish.. and they would occupy the middle/upper part of the 55 gallon.. (being so bottom heavy in the tank the upper regions are vacant).. however, I read also, to my horror that my ABN would be tempted to and would probably suck on them..

Is this what will happen?

I have 17 cories (yay) 1 albino BN, and 5 otocinclus occupying the bottom of the tank and a small, unassuming group of 6 female cherry barbs who mind their own business and are quiet and calm. I got rid of the males a long time ago because they had the whole tank on edge forever chasing the females wanting to breed.

Or.. if not discus then what? I'm at a loss..

Gina

[apistomaster]

I have used common Bushy Noses, including albino and albino long fins as the primary algae eater in most all my tanks and in all my discus tanks for decades. Not has ever cause me any problems. In fact, I use 1 inch baby Bushy noses, a couple per tank, in with my breeding pairs of Discus. Sometime after they reach 1-1/4 inches they can bull their way in and eat discus spawns and then need to be replaced with new small specimens. The common Bushy Nose is the safest and most versatile pleco to use as an algae eater. The very large adults sometime do some unwanted digging if they don't have a cave available and sometimes the large specimens will damage the leaves of Amazon Swords when they are really just trying to eat algae. These are usually the fish which are 4 to 5 inches so I don't like to use those in planted tanks.

For tanks run more for the benefit of plants I prefer using a combination of a school of Otocinclus, several Farlowella and about one Amano shrimp for every 2 or 3 gallons. I am rehabbing my 125 gal as a low tech planted tank. I plan to keep 6 Farlowella, 25 Otocinclus and 25 Amano Shrimp.
But the one thing you do not have to worry about is keeping Bushy nose with Discus. I have 10 F1 Nhamunda Blue Discus in my 75 gal which are close to pairing off. I have 1 big normal BN, a trio of large albino long fin BN and about 8 Hypancistrus contradens as my bottom feeders. I use warm water plecos because they need the same warm water as Discus and only some Corydoras are comfortable at that water temp. Common BN do fine in 84*F water. One Hypancistrus can eat as much food as 3 to 5 Corydoras depending on the size of the Hypancistrus species. 10 Discus in a 75 gal is normally a few too many but I also have a sump for my wet/dry filter which provides added water volume and surface area. I also have an Eheim Classic Model 2217. The only plants I have in this tank are some Tropical Hornwort(Ceratophyllum demersum) floating free just under the surface and a potted group of Cryptocoryne affinis.
Between these two filter I have a water flow of 100 to 1100 gph so I can fudge the general rule of 10 gal per Discus.
You can just make out an albino BN in the lower front of this photo.

Just the tail of an albino LF BN may be seen in the right rear.

[ginagv]

would the discus be ok if I just buy 2 small ones or even a single small one or do they need a group? And, I have 3 different types of cory.. c. elegans, cw016, and c. trilinious.. I dont know if they can tolerate the temps a discus need... drat.. the discus need like 81-82f at least right?

I am so at a loss about what to keep now.

Gina

[Taratron]

Gina, I think discus need it at least 82, possibly 84? There is an awesome discus breeder up here in Phoenix if you're willing to drive!

I haven't kept discus in a while, but the ones I did, was a 125 planted tank with six discus and lots of dither fish, small tetras, cories, etc. In the end we had a pair of discus that did breed and we had to remove the others. However, I only ran the tank maintenance and the owner did not want to remove the tetras or indeed the breeding pair.

Were you aiming to breed the discus, similar to your idea with angelfish?

[ginagv]

actually no.. I have no interest in breeding any of my fish. I'm actually just trying to find something to occupy the upper 1/2 of the 55 gallon tank, otherwise, with cories, otocinclus, and abn as occupants.. well, its just all bottom dwellers.. the cherry barbs stay low too, mostly in the plants.. and I understand that, they are comfortable there.

I guess I can let the angels just be in their little group of 4. They really only pick on each other and leave everyone else alone. I guess the only thing about them and their aggressiveness that troubles me is all but 1 are now missing the long thin fins they have on the bottom front of their bodies.. I'm guessing that the one angel who still has his/hers has nipped the other one's off. There is no infection or fungus or anything to indicate any physical issues..

I just want a calm tank..

Gina

[Taratron]

Well, there's always glass cats for upper level fish too.

[bsmith]

IME discus usually occupy the bottom half of the tank. Since they peck food off the bottom they are usually scouring around the substrate looking for something tasty. They are great fish and sometimes can be kept in smaller groups of two to three but there is a chance of the more dominant one bullying the weaker fish till it no longer wants to eat and eventually dies. You just never know with them. If you start with healthy fish from the start you should be fine though.

[apistomaster]

I keep Discus at 84*F They do well when kept at 84 to 86*F
Discus are more likely to get sick if kept less than 84* but some people keep them at 82*F.
I have been keeping and breeding Discus for more than 4 decades and see no benefit to keeping them cooler.
The general rule is to allow 10 gal/discus. In a 55 gal tank, 5 is the most adults I would keep in it.
You need to allow this space from the start so they don't get stunted as they grow and crowd the tank. As a Discus breeder, I break the general rule but only because as they grow, I give them more room.
I can keep one or two Discus together which are not a mated pair but most people will do better with them when they keep them in groups of 5 or more. During their grow out there is always one which is at the bottom of the pecking order. The more Discus you keep the less just one gets picked on. Small Discus should always be kept in larger groups and not 1 or 2.

I get the impression that you may be happier keeping a community tank without any Discus.
Some Corydoras do fine at 84*F. Corydoras sterbai is a popular choice among Discus keepers because they do well at 84*F.
C. trilineatus is one which is kind of a border line species. I know some Discus keepers who keep them together but the other species is probably best kept at 78-80*F

[ginagv]

well this is why I come here... you all teach me so much.

What about these glass cats.. If I get say.. 6 of them.. can they tolerate hard water ok? I think with the cories I have, a temp of 77-78 or so is best?

I was, in no way set on discus.. was just a passing thought.. obviously my choosing of the angels didn't work out.. although, as I said they are only picking on each other, but only 1 of the 4 still has the long thin fins on the front bottom of their bodies.. the others are all shortened.. thinking that the one with the remaining fins has been the culprit...

sigh.. of course, one of them hurts my cories.. or Shopvac my abn... it will have a quick trip to visit my daughter's male betta.. who has a definitive anger management issue

Gina

[ceh]

in all my aquariums i have discus fish with plecos no big problems
soms they suck on them but it is not a problem for discus they know how to defend themselff

[apistomaster]

I have never seen an Amncistrus cf cirrhosus bother any Discus but some other plecos, especially some of the large species, often do bother Discus. Pterygoplichthys and Hypostomus are often guilty of sucking on Discus.
Sturisoma frequently suck on discus and can harm them.

[bsmith]

I had a royal in with my discus for years and never saw him attached to my fish.

[apistomaster]

Many large plecos ignore Discus and then sometimes only certain individuals do.