Syno "erupteris" => Syno. eupterus
Posted: 17 Sep 2003, 05:25
How many of these can I put in a ten gal. tank?
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Syno "erupteris" => Syno. eupterus
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Posted: 17 Sep 2003, 09:05
None. They grow to about 8" and need swimming room. A 10-gallon would be terribly cramped.
Posted: 17 Sep 2003, 11:07
40/50 UK Gallon minimun tank size for just 1 S.eupterus to be comfortable.
Posted: 24 Sep 2003, 17:28
I have 1- 1" Eupterus in a 20g now; before,; i kept 1 in a 55, and 2 in a 100g; they do need room, when they grow; really large dorsal fin
Posted: 06 Oct 2003, 14:34
My lfs gave me one as my first fish and said he was suitable for my 6.6gallon tank!
I don't know if they realise the consequences of them not bothering to learn stuff about the animals they're meant to be looking after, if they do know that they're wrong they're horrible people.
I can't believe them (sorry to generalise but my hating pet shops is yet to be disproved by good store with good/any advice), I don't know what to do. He's been in a 100 litre/22 gallon for the last few months and seems a lot happier, but this can't last forever and I'm not allowed another tank seeing as there is no room for one.
I don't know if they realise the consequences of them not bothering to learn stuff about the animals they're meant to be looking after, if they do know that they're wrong they're horrible people.
I can't believe them (sorry to generalise but my hating pet shops is yet to be disproved by good store with good/any advice), I don't know what to do. He's been in a 100 litre/22 gallon for the last few months and seems a lot happier, but this can't last forever and I'm not allowed another tank seeing as there is no room for one.
Posted: 09 Oct 2003, 17:17
we all have our pet shop horror stories 
Posted: 09 Oct 2003, 18:27
As someone that actually worked in an lfs for awhile, I also have some horror stories. Like the one about the guy that bought a moray eel at WalMart as a freshwater fish and called me every name in the book when he called the store and I told him there was no such thing It was a saltwater eel that easily tolerated brackish levels when very young. Now mind you, he called my store, where he didn't BUY the fish, because he was referred to us for help, from another store in town. He wanted help getting it to eat, and I told him the addition of salt would stimulate his eel. He came in the next day to buy feeder guppies, and was literally so abusive that a coworker informed him that he was going to have to shut up or go buy his guppies elsewhere.
Could he have found the information about the moray elsewhere? Yep. Did he bother? Nope. A few months later it died of mysterious causes. Duh.
It all boils down to doing your research. Noone trusts a car salesman to get them exactly what they want in a car, yet people assume that an 18 year old kid working at a pet store for minimum wage knows everything you need to know about a very detail oriented hobby. That never made sense to me. The information IS out there, about every fish you can find available, in 95% of the cases, but most people never even bother to check. I see it to a MUCH worse extreme with african cichlids. In a single day, the average of 3 or 4 people will drop into chat, talking about their brand new uncycled tank with an couple M. auratus or M. lombardoi. Usually the tank is a 30 gallon or smaller. Its depressing, to be quite honest.
There ARE great stores out there. Most of them are being driven out of business by chain stores that remove all the profit from items they used to be able to mark up to cover the huge overhead of carrying live fish and dry goods in a variety of shapes and sizes, not to mention paying that kid they're trying to educate about fish, if we're lucky. If you like being able to go to your local store with good information, keep that in mind while you're worried about saving a dollar on filter replacements, or ordering other supplies online.
OK, my two cents worth. Sorry if I offended anyone.
Barbie
Could he have found the information about the moray elsewhere? Yep. Did he bother? Nope. A few months later it died of mysterious causes. Duh.
It all boils down to doing your research. Noone trusts a car salesman to get them exactly what they want in a car, yet people assume that an 18 year old kid working at a pet store for minimum wage knows everything you need to know about a very detail oriented hobby. That never made sense to me. The information IS out there, about every fish you can find available, in 95% of the cases, but most people never even bother to check. I see it to a MUCH worse extreme with african cichlids. In a single day, the average of 3 or 4 people will drop into chat, talking about their brand new uncycled tank with an couple M. auratus or M. lombardoi. Usually the tank is a 30 gallon or smaller. Its depressing, to be quite honest.
There ARE great stores out there. Most of them are being driven out of business by chain stores that remove all the profit from items they used to be able to mark up to cover the huge overhead of carrying live fish and dry goods in a variety of shapes and sizes, not to mention paying that kid they're trying to educate about fish, if we're lucky. If you like being able to go to your local store with good information, keep that in mind while you're worried about saving a dollar on filter replacements, or ordering other supplies online.
OK, my two cents worth. Sorry if I offended anyone.
Barbie
Posted: 10 Oct 2003, 00:25
DITTO!! 
Posted: 10 Oct 2003, 08:39
Yep very much so. Me.Barbie wrote:Sorry if I offended anyone.
Think!
Think for a small millisecond of what it is like to be a complete novice with fish.
I have no problem doing research, I very much enjoy it and would always do it if I was aware of any needing to be done. I had no idea, as many many beginners who come on fish-related forums say they do, that there would be so much involved in fishkeeping and therefore wasn't aware that I needed more information than that there was already in my head (biology A level) and that from the fish shop, which you assume to be capable. I am not a remotely lazy person, it would be impossible to achieve what I have if so.
As soon as I became aware of the vastness of the hobby I was right there with the research (a few days after having the tank) I started a research file which is now full of stuff.
The only reason people don't trust a car salesman is because of the stigma and stereotypes surrounding them that can't be trusted. If you had never heard that before, you wouldn't know not to trust them.
In the same way, most of you probably trust the police because they are supposed to be trusted, whereas when you become involved with dealings with the police you realise you can't trust a word that comes out of the majority of their mouths.
So how was I supposed to know that I couldn't get all the information I needed from the people at the fish shop? In my world there aren't rumours circulating on the streets about lfs!
"yet people assume that an 18 year old kid working at a pet store for minimum wage knows everything you need to know about a very detail oriented hobby. That never made sense to me."
It NEVER made sense to you! Gosh I wish I had your psychic powers when I first walked into a pet shop knowing nothing about fish that told me that it was a detail oriented hobby and that I couldnt trust the staff so had betta run and do my own research. I wish I hadn't been innocent enough to believe that they would employ people to give advice that is incorrect, and that these people would answer a question they dont know the answer to. The reason I believed that is because I would never ever do something like that cos it would be on my conscience for ever, so I didn't expect them to.
I'm sorry I'm too stupid and lazy for the on-the-ball people here.
Posted: 10 Oct 2003, 14:59
I shudder to think about what it was like to try to do this 10-15 years ago when there was no such thing as the internet and information was much scarcer.
You actually had to trust people to know what they were talking about, which in most cases they don't.
Misty, don't feel bad. Most people around are somewhat cynical of the LFS stores because the majority of them do not have people who know their stuff. We also have to remember that there is a TON of information out there about a TON of different fish topics. No one can be expected to know everything about every species.
I get funny looks from the people at the LFS when I walk into the store with a 3 page spreadsheet of fish species information listing everything from adult size, compatibility, water likes/dislikes, food, etc. etc.
There is so much information out there, I wish someone would compile it in a usable form that people could use.
You actually had to trust people to know what they were talking about, which in most cases they don't.
Misty, don't feel bad. Most people around are somewhat cynical of the LFS stores because the majority of them do not have people who know their stuff. We also have to remember that there is a TON of information out there about a TON of different fish topics. No one can be expected to know everything about every species.
I get funny looks from the people at the LFS when I walk into the store with a 3 page spreadsheet of fish species information listing everything from adult size, compatibility, water likes/dislikes, food, etc. etc.
There is so much information out there, I wish someone would compile it in a usable form that people could use.
Posted: 10 Oct 2003, 16:33
maybe i'll write a book?? 
Posted: 10 Oct 2003, 20:07
Misty I wasn't trying to be insulting. I was simply stating that these problems wouldn't happen if people did their research BEFORE they bought the fish, or at least took responsibility for the fact that they bought fish they weren't personally sure about.
The person that works at your lfs probably just has different methods of keeping fish. I'm sure his way works just fine for him. Some people aren't devastated when they lose fish. I am personally. I work very very hard to make sure that my fish are happy and healthy and in the best conditions I can provide for them.
I nowhere said I assumed you were stupid OR lazy. Your only problem was being uninformed. That's not a crime, and you're doing what you can to GET informed, which is very admirable. I'm ever so sorry you had a difficult time with your first fish purchase, but on the other hand, that doesn't make your lfs bad, it means you got one piece of bad information. Try going back to the store and asking the person that gave you the advice why they recommended that fish for that size tank. Odds are good that's what they were told and they thought they were helping you.
I don't know many people that set out to intentionally give bad advice. Most of the ones that do would be insulted to think you thought their advice was bad. They're trying to help, their source of information just isn't reliable. Once in awhile you get the ones that make it up as they go. Its just all about learning who is which as you learn the information needed to keep your fish happy and healthy.
I personally do my own research, before I buy, but that is just my method. I don't go to the Computer store and ask them to tell me what I need. I already have a good idea of what I need from research I did before I get there. I don't trust the guy selling horses to pick out the one I want, I let him tell me which one has the qualities I'm looking for, then I make the decision myself. I'm currently working on an issue or two in my life where people aren't "responsible" for things that they did, and I guess that is boiling over into how I view everything. Sorry again for offending you. That was not my intention. My intention was to make you see there are two sides to every coin.
Barbie
The person that works at your lfs probably just has different methods of keeping fish. I'm sure his way works just fine for him. Some people aren't devastated when they lose fish. I am personally. I work very very hard to make sure that my fish are happy and healthy and in the best conditions I can provide for them.
I nowhere said I assumed you were stupid OR lazy. Your only problem was being uninformed. That's not a crime, and you're doing what you can to GET informed, which is very admirable. I'm ever so sorry you had a difficult time with your first fish purchase, but on the other hand, that doesn't make your lfs bad, it means you got one piece of bad information. Try going back to the store and asking the person that gave you the advice why they recommended that fish for that size tank. Odds are good that's what they were told and they thought they were helping you.
I don't know many people that set out to intentionally give bad advice. Most of the ones that do would be insulted to think you thought their advice was bad. They're trying to help, their source of information just isn't reliable. Once in awhile you get the ones that make it up as they go. Its just all about learning who is which as you learn the information needed to keep your fish happy and healthy.
I personally do my own research, before I buy, but that is just my method. I don't go to the Computer store and ask them to tell me what I need. I already have a good idea of what I need from research I did before I get there. I don't trust the guy selling horses to pick out the one I want, I let him tell me which one has the qualities I'm looking for, then I make the decision myself. I'm currently working on an issue or two in my life where people aren't "responsible" for things that they did, and I guess that is boiling over into how I view everything. Sorry again for offending you. That was not my intention. My intention was to make you see there are two sides to every coin.
Barbie
Posted: 11 Oct 2003, 07:45
Misty, your toes are a bit too long, IMO
there's no stepping beside them, maybe?
Barbie's reply definitely makes sense in all the right places.
And indeed it's the difference between the shops that only want to make money, nevermind the fish or the customers; or the ones that like a happy customer coming back, and the fish to live.
I've seen similar things happen (although I don't work in a shop), and in some shops they like to see me hang around (as in" THAT's the catfish/cichid guy. you want to know about this weird, unknown fish? ask him"), others know it all themselves.
Wich is fine if they DO,
but bad if ego, ignorance or greed stand in the way.
And a kid earning some saturday cash in a shop is indeed likely to miss some things, unless it's a dedicated hobbyist.
I've made some real stupid mistakes myself, and back then (in the 70's) there was NO internet, few good books over here (books were expensive for a 14 year old), so it was much harder.
Sid
there's no stepping beside them, maybe?
Barbie's reply definitely makes sense in all the right places.
And indeed it's the difference between the shops that only want to make money, nevermind the fish or the customers; or the ones that like a happy customer coming back, and the fish to live.
I've seen similar things happen (although I don't work in a shop), and in some shops they like to see me hang around (as in" THAT's the catfish/cichid guy. you want to know about this weird, unknown fish? ask him"), others know it all themselves.
Wich is fine if they DO,
but bad if ego, ignorance or greed stand in the way.
And a kid earning some saturday cash in a shop is indeed likely to miss some things, unless it's a dedicated hobbyist.
I've made some real stupid mistakes myself, and back then (in the 70's) there was NO internet, few good books over here (books were expensive for a 14 year old), so it was much harder.
Sid
Posted: 11 Oct 2003, 08:05
Everything is different now that I have discovered the vast amount of information there is to know about fish in general and the different fishie species.
Before I bought my last addition to my tank I did research, which is fun so wouldnt have avoided it if I had thought about doing it. Instead I thought that I had all the knowledge I need with my 101 tips book or whatever it is, and thought I knew which species I was getting from that. Unfortunately I didn't realise that the shops might not stock what is in the book and all the fish were different
The pets store in question hopefully knows more about their other animals than they do of their fish, but I've had the pleasure of sharing a bit of knowledge with them. Like the fact that the clown loach they sold me was a bengal loach. They were really interested to hear this and seemed to glad to have the information.
So I guess that is to be my relationship with the pets store.
I have now thankyou, had a pleasure of going to a store where there are people who can give correct advice, a specialist aquatic shop (a bit of a drive), but you have to be a bit careful at the weekend because they have the more temporary staff on who don't seem as confident in their knowledge.
Yes I agree that lots of Barbie's reply did make sense, I am aware that there are two sides to every coin, I am aware of the flip side, I just needed to be reminded!
Before I bought my last addition to my tank I did research, which is fun so wouldnt have avoided it if I had thought about doing it. Instead I thought that I had all the knowledge I need with my 101 tips book or whatever it is, and thought I knew which species I was getting from that. Unfortunately I didn't realise that the shops might not stock what is in the book and all the fish were different
The pets store in question hopefully knows more about their other animals than they do of their fish, but I've had the pleasure of sharing a bit of knowledge with them. Like the fact that the clown loach they sold me was a bengal loach. They were really interested to hear this and seemed to glad to have the information.
So I guess that is to be my relationship with the pets store.
I have now thankyou, had a pleasure of going to a store where there are people who can give correct advice, a specialist aquatic shop (a bit of a drive), but you have to be a bit careful at the weekend because they have the more temporary staff on who don't seem as confident in their knowledge.
Yes I agree that lots of Barbie's reply did make sense, I am aware that there are two sides to every coin, I am aware of the flip side, I just needed to be reminded!