Pterosturisoma microps

[ElTofi]

hi there, ElTofi is back on Planet Catfish after a (long) while...

I needed a time to forget the Pseudacanthicus desaster on the 1600 liters... so from this spring I made a break with L-numbers... but these last days, the mood was around pleco's again... So I arranged a new set up in the living room 720 liters tank... to introduce pleco's, of course !

I have this tank, set up for a amazonian population, actually only with 4-5 Echinodorus bleheri, 2 big roots, a amount of volcanic rocks and quiet well filtered with Eheim Pro III 2080 + a internal decantation of 60 liters. The tank has poor light (only 3x 36W), the water is black with soft and acidic parameters. The temperature goes around 28°C. Population is very poor yet, only 25 Hyphessobrycon erythrostigma, 10 Brochis splendens and one survivor of Baryancistrus sp LDA33

Moreover, I found 3 Panaque cf nigrolineatus L191 (Broken lines royal pleco) of about 6 cm which are fine and will be ok in this tank. But, visiting a few shops in my area I found 3 Pterosturisoma microps around 15 cm SL which fascinated me ! I'm unable to buy a fish without knowing at least a few things about it... so I told the shop's owner to keep these little guys a while for me...

Can you help me ? Except on the genus article and on Shane's world, I wasn't able (yet) to find really helpfull informations about them.

Do you think it would be a good choice for this tank ? Considering I'd love to add a group of Pterophyllum altum one of these days.

any suggestion ? idea ? experience ?

thanks a lot

Tofi

[Richard B]

Good to have you back

I may be wrong but i seem to recall that these are hard to keep long term - she seem to be ok for a bit but then fade away - a forum search should reveal previous threads

[DutchFry]

Hi and welcome back!

I have no experience with these, but i would treat them as Lamontichthys species. high current, high DO, no boisterous tankmates (i.e. Panaque) just some small fish as dithers, the Hyphessobrycons would do I think! Furthermore, I don't think altums would appreciate such strong currents!

but let's wait what others have to say about this.

[racoll]

Not an easy fish at all!

I picked up one of these once, and he went into a decent size "community" tank with various other fishes including quite a few loricariids.

He didn't do so well, and just stayed at the surface by the filter outlet the whole time. It would feed on food I tucked behind the filter pipes, but sadly pined away and died over several weeks. The weather was hot too and going on holiday at that time didn't help either.

I would not recommend these fish for any such set up, but if you are able to provide a large species tank, and can get specimens of decent health, maybe give them a go.

You will need really, really well oxygenated water and a low fish load. A dimly lit tank with lots of bogwood branches and an open substrate with some rounded pebbles will be best I think.

Feeding may be an issue, as they didn't seem to leave the structure much, but in a more suitable species tank they may do more.

Wels Atlas I reports pretty much the same thing.

[ElTofi]

thanks a lot for this advice... it seems the 3 individuals I found (I didn't buy them yet) are already acclimated from a few months. The price is a problem for the usual customers of this shop, which are more "basic Guppies" customers... so they stay there actually...

The good point is that I know they eat and they look healthy : "normal" belly, evening and morning activity, team behaviour, and indeed, they stay calm in the main stream during the day...

I don't know what I'm gonna do about them... first of all, I'm going to run a few other shops (South Germany this next Saturday, german Switzerland December 4th) and then, I'll make my decision depending on what I see and what I hear about them.

anyway, thanks for helping. I'll take your information into account.

[Norman]

Hi,

I would prefer a species tank for this species.
It doesn't need a large size, but with some specialities.
P.microps feel best when there will be a strong current in the tank.
Also they prefer a blank bottom without sand or gravel.
You don't need any plants or similar, eventually large driftwood or flat stones.

The way to success is to feed them very well, even if it seems they don't eat much.
Doing this you have to get a closer view for water quality.

Norman

[ElTofi]

@Norman :
what would you consider as suffisant for a tank size for P. microps ?

the more I read about it, the more I think I won't take them in a community tank...

but I still have a few tanks which I could enventually re-affect

[Norman]

Hi,

Suitable would be a tank with a size of 60cm x 60cm and a height of 25-30cm.
If you don't have a tank depth size of 60cm, you have to increase size of length.

Norman

[ElTofi]

Actually, I have a 100x40x40 cm which I had in mind for them alone (3)...

could it be a decent home for them in your point of view ?

[Norman]

Hi,

Yes, I think this tank size can be a perfect home for up to 5 or 6 P.microps.

Norman

[ElTofi]

so, I think I'm going to book them and install them into this 160 liters tank on their own.

If I resume :

- low light
- poor sandy bottom
- a few roots
- 2 flat stones
- very strong O2
- T° around 25°C
- current but not rapids
- vegies as main feeding
- sometimes a part of meaty pelets

Do I have it right ?

[Norman]

Hi,

- low light - YES
- poor sandy bottom - they would prefer no sand
- a few roots - YES
- 2 flat stones - YES
- very strong O2 - YES
- T° around 25°C - better would be 27°C
- current but not rapids - also rapids are welcome
- vegies as main feeding - better feed them mostly pellets, and sometime some vegies
- sometimes a part of meaty pelets - green pellets would be better

Norman

[ElTofi]

hi you all,

this is what I intend to give as a house for the P. microps during the next week...

Actually, there are still a dozen of Ancistrus sp Paraguay living in there (caves on the right), they will be pulled out in a few days, before this tank recieves the newcomers



There will be a TUNZE NanoStream 2500 l/h for current and O2. I also have a TUNZE Stream 8500 l/h but I guess that wouldn't be adequate for such a small tank.

your opinions ? advices ?

[racoll]

Looks good. Pretty much what I had in mind.

Maybe some more flat stones would simulate the flat surfaces they like? There's something I don't trust about bare tanks, but perhaps that's just me.

Feeding will be the main problem. Have you thought about mixing up an agar blend of fresh and prepared foods?

If water quality could be an issue with uneaten food, maybe some Corydoras, Malaysian trumpet snails or cherry shrimp would be a good idea too?

[Norman]

Hi,

There will be a TUNZE NanoStream 2500 l/h for current and O2. I also have a TUNZE Stream 8500 l/h but I guess that wouldn't be adequate for such a small tank.

Try it!
I think a Tunze Stream with 8500l/h is not too much. Lamontichthys would love it - Pterosturisoma should do the same.

Feeding will be the main problem. Have you thought about mixing up an agar blend of fresh and prepared foods?

An other swiss guy (J.Leuenberger) wrote an article in the last issue of the german "Amazonas" magazine about the feeding mixture for fish of the zoo in Basel(CH). With such a mixture one of the guys of the zoo (D.Madörin) had success in breeding Lamontichthys filamentosus.
Because of the close realationship of Lamontichthys and Pterosturisoma this can be a way to success.

If water quality could be an issue with uneaten food, maybe some Corydoras, Malaysian trumpet snails or cherry shrimp would be a good idea too?

In general I have no problems with that. But with such an obviously shy species like Pterosturisoma microps it could be problematic, so that P.microps will get a less of food.

so long
Norman

[zipper]

I kept these fish in the past. I had three specimens in a 55 gallon tank (48" x 13" x 16") decorated with branchy driftwood, no gravel and a steady current in the tank. I fed the fish hikari algae wafers and frozen blood worms. They did well until winter came around and the temperature dropped into the upper 60s (farenheit... I live in the tropics) the fish quickly developed ich and succumbed rather quickly. They were amazing fish and I hope to have the chance to keep them again one day.

[ElTofi]

hi,

Yesterday, I put the TUNZE Stream 8500 l/h in the "without fish yet" tank, just to try... OMG !
After only 10 minutes the sandy bottom was devastated and a strange landscape had been created in the tank... but it seems not that bad indeed... I put the 15 Ancistrus sp Paraguay (3 adults and babies) back into it just to see... they seem to like it very much. They took place under stones and roots and are more visible than before, even if there are still the caves, they ignore them.

I have recieved the last issue of Amazonas (by the way, there's an article on Pseuda L25 by myself inside it too... it seems it is a "special Swiss" edition, with Farid, Udo, Leuenberger, and myself)... I'm gonna check the mixture of Bäsler Zoo. Even if I already heard about this cooking in Hannover in 2009, and read it before in the Wels Atlas 1, 2nd edition, under the feed back of Spawning Lamontichthys filamentosus and L. Ilanos... always something to learn more.

I think I will take my chance with Hikari algae wafers chips, as I had good result with other species and I have a stock of it ready for use... Moreover, the shop's owner told me that they were eating pretty well (they seem "normal", no flat or depressed belly), and she keep them from a quiet long time...

Thanks for the advice.

[Janne]

You should go for it, these are one of my favourite fishes, follow Norman's advice but also feed them frozen Cyclops several times per week. I didn't find them so difficult after they was aclimitized, they are little sensitive in the beginning.

Male.

Pterosturiosoma_microps_male.jpg (109.64 KiB) Viewed 10101 times

Female.

Pterosturiosoma_microps_female.jpg (79.5 KiB) Viewed 10101 times

Janne

[ElTofi]

If everything turns out well, they should be in my tank next Monday evening... I'll keep in touch.

thanks to all of you.

Tofi

[MatsP]

Good luck!

--
Mats

[ElTofi]

Hi you all,

the P. microps are at home... I just hope to be able to feed them properly

a few pictures, as I don't want to disturb them on their first evening by me...

first, the tank :


then the smallest :


the biggest :


the smallest from under :


a male, if I understood Janne's explanations...

[Norman]

Hi,

At first I would like to invert Jannes explanation of the sexes.
In all Loricariinae males have a thin and pointed genital papilla, this of females is thick and blunt.
Next to the genital papilla its enclosing plates specially in P.microps and some others shapes a broad unplated area at females and a smaller area with a lack of plates at males. That is neccessary for breeding. P.microps have eggs with a size of around 4-5mm, so the plate free area has to be larger in females than in males.

Next, your specimens are looking very healthy.
The filaments of the pectoral fins are well developed.
Good luck with them!

best regards
Norman

[pturley]

I agree with Norman regarding the sexing of these fish. Janne, you have them backwards. The first pregenital scute is star-shaped in females with concave sides while the male has straight sides to this scute.

I first wrote about this in the mid-'90s, published in the North American Catfish Associations newsletter (sadly, now defunct). I'll have to look around again for the article (several hard-drives ago).

Sincerely,
Paul E. Turley

PS: Yeah, I'm still around...

(SNIP)
Male.

Pterosturiosoma_microps_male.jpg

Female.

Pterosturiosoma_microps_female.jpg

Janne

[apistomaster]

If these like warm, very soft and acid water they would be good tank mates for Altum Angels. Altums are found in much stronger currents than most wild Angels and they love having a power head induced current.
Altums should be kept in water which is at least 82 to 84*F, a TD >20 ppm and a pH between 3.5 and 4.5. Plenty of fish like these extremes. Check where they are from if you can. Some well known Altum streams include Rio Ventuari and those around Puerto Ayacucho, Venezuela.

Edit by author:
I researched the available information on pc and see it is often coming out of Iquitos so they probably wouldn't be comfortable in water with a pH as low as those preferred by Altums. The pH varies widely in the general area from about neutral with up to 200 ppm to about 5.0 pH and >20 ppm TDS like the Discus streams and smaller streams where Apistogramma nissenji are found around Hernando Jennaro.
However the so-called "Peruvian Altum" and other Peruvian more Scalare-like Angelfish would still be viable tank mates. I'm one of the global moderators over at http://www.finarama.com where we mostly deal with wild Angelfish topics.

[ElTofi]

thanks for your contribution.

I had in mind a cohabitation of both wild Angels (P. altum) and P. microps. The point is that in the 720 liters, I have too many different kinds of fishes (Brochis splendens, Panaque L191, Hyphessobrycon erythrostigma, Baryancistrus L142, L. dorsigera and even Chromobotia macracantha). I guess, with fishes such as P. microps, the stress would have been too much ! So I finally choosed to make a specifical tank for them.

the future will tell us if I was right or not !

anyway, I'm sure wild Angels can manage a "strong" current in a tank, it won't ever be so strong than in the nature... I've checked a few movies and pictures, mainly on Oliver Lucanus' "Amazon below water" and AquaNet.TV and I'm convinced that Angels are not so "cool down rivers" fishes

[ElTofi]

I'll shoot other pictures these next days, just to catch the difference for sexing. I wasn't able (yet) to compare both sexes on my fishes. But as said before, I don't want to disturb them more for the moment.

shortly saw this morning that they found a place on 2 flat stones under a strong current, on the left side of the tank, very close to the frontal glas. That will be perfect for shooting

considering feeding, the 4 Hikari chips I threw in yesterday were eaten... BUT it could also be the Ancistrus sp Paraguay (still in this tank although not in competition with the Ptero's). I guess I will set up a culture of "green stones" (don't know the word in English, but woods and flat stones under very hight power light in hot water, to raise algae fast) in another tank as soon as possible.

I'll keep in touch.

[Janne]

I't was some time ago that I kept these but Norman and Paul are for certain correct, I never succeeded to breed so I was not 100% sure which was male or female. But they are very lovely and active species.

Janne

[Norman]

Hi Janne,

I never succeeded to breed

I think you are not alone with that. ;)
As I know this species was just breed by 2 persons until now.

so long
Norman

[ElTofi]

I took 3 flat stones covered with algae in my 1600 liters, and put them into the Pterosturisoma microps tank, just to see if they'd care... doing this, I caused a kind of disturb in the tank. It helped me shooting these 3 picts :

the biggest one :


the same one, in the "wrong" direction (current coming strong from right to left)


the 3rd, with a funny reflection on it  :


Let's see tomorrow if they touched the "green stones"... I'm far from convinced as the algae are very thick and more like cyanobacteria than real algaes...

[Bengal]

Interesting post, do you have any more updates on how they're feeding? I've always been interested in this species.