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These were sold to me as wild L-199s. These are the best pictures I could get. Please help me to verify they are the same species and if possible, the sex!

Fish #1 and #3


Fish #2 and #4


I will post additional detailed pics of each fish in a seperate reply.

Fish #1

Fish #2

Fish #3

Fish #4

No one has any thoughts on this?

You know what I just noticed? Fish #1 doesn't have that little extra fin right under/behind the genital region. Does that indicate that it's a female? It looks like a female to me.

Bunnie1978 wrote:You know what I just noticed? Fish #1 doesn't have that little extra fin right under/behind the genital region. Does that indicate that it's a female? It looks like a female to me.

The missing anal fin is not a sex indicator, it indicates the fish is missing it's anal fin - either through ingjury or generitcal deficency. I'm pretty sure the fish is perfectly fine without this fin, but unless I've missed some major point in fish anatomy, this fin is present in ALL Loricariidae (plecos).

I can't see any direct sexing features on these fish - which is either that they are all the same sex (one critical factor in distinguishing the gender of fish is that there are at least one of each kind in the group), but if you are a bit more patient, someone with more experience may help out.

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Mats

First of all, nice fish and in good condition!
I find it difficult to see if it could be L199 with pictures from above. They have a typical headshape when looked at from the side.
But maybe others can ID better for you. I think fish 2 and 4 are male, seeing some odonthode growth on the tail and pectorial fins. 1 Could be a female and a gravid one too. Fish 3 I can't tell.

So, would it be a good idea to seperate the two that I believe are male and female into their own tank? Instead of having several males competeing for dominance? Or can multiple males share one female in, say a 55g, peacefully? Assuming they are conditioned well and have appropriate water quality and real estate? Also, if I were to seperate them out, what is the smallest size tank that a pair should be comfortable in to breed. I also breed Angelfish, so those would be the only tankmates, juveniles and grow-outs. My ancistrus pairs are mostly in 29g planted tanks with Angelfish, and the breeding is super-easy in that scenario.

I'd say you can keep these fish in a relatively small tank - a 20gal Long or 29g for example. I wouldn't go much under that, basically because water quality may go bad too quickly in a small tank, and these are a little bit more sensitive than your common Ancistrus.

And whilst I don't think juvenile angels are a threat to the fry, you need to make sure water quality is good, which may be more difficult to achieve with more fish in there.

As to splitting or not - this is one of those things that some people think it's better one way and other people think something else.

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Mats

You don't know yet wich male the female will select to breed with. Just leave them all together for now and wait until they have their first spawn.
I have a group of 6 L199 coming into spawning condition, 1 gravid female and 2 dominant males. I'm leaving the other all in the tank to let her choise her mate. Sometimes males will have several females. But it is not so common to have multiple males spawning in the same group. Each female will take about 4-6 weeks to be gravid with eggs again and then she will most likely visite the same male.

Jac,
You would recommend keeping them all together in a 55 then?

You know, with all the different fish I've bred, I've never experienced putting a know male and known female together with no breeding. I don't think fish are as picky, but then I've not been successful with these yet, so I will certainly yield to more expertise!

Thanks for your feedback!

I don't see anything directly wrong with keeping them in their current tank.

I expect you haven't bred many different Plecos - most of them don't just breed when you put them in a tank - they often need some form of trigger, and I have heard more than one case where a "replacement" male/female is required for a successful spawning.

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Mats

Hi,

I think you have two pairs. The L199 is quite difficult to identify the sex especially in young fish, according to my experience in shooting (strong light,stres) the males are more lighter, females remain under strong light the darker and more contrast, no strong stress coloration as males.I watched the male response to the shooting for several species of the genus Hypancistrus most significant example of L401 and L340.

http://www.hypancistrus.eu/album/hypanc ... l-199w-jpg
http://www.hypancistrus.eu/album/hypanc ... ice-1w-jpg
http://www.hypancistrus.eu/album/hypanc ... -atlas-jpg
http://www.hypancistrus.eu/album/hypanc ... -atlas-jpg
http://www.hypancistrus.eu/album/hypanc ... mec-1-jpg1
http://www.hypancistrus.eu/album/hypanc ... emale-jpg1

Milan

Mats,
I haven't really experienced that yet. I am very conscientious about water quality and providing an appropriate landscape for each fish populating a tank and try to keep all fish that like the same thing, soft acidic water with large semi-frequent water changes, planted tanks, and caves. Except for my guppy tank. I don't really care about that one at all. I throw food in once in a while, that's about it. I use RO water mostly, but when I run out I use tap, which is about 100tds hardness, so it's still soft enough for all the fish I keep. Then when I change it back up with RO it simulates the rainy season. I've never seen any signs of stress from doing things this way. I also don't "clean" the tank as rigourously as some do, like mulm and stuff like that. I usually vacuum the gravel that is most exposed and easy to get to each week, but I don't move all the plants and decor around to get under it unless the tank has some problem that I need to solve, or if I'm moving fish or tanks around.

I am not sure if #1 is H. furunculus.

MatsP wrote:

Bunnie1978 wrote:You know what I just noticed? Fish #1 doesn't have that little extra fin right under/behind the genital region. Does that indicate that it's a female? It looks like a female to me.

The missing anal fin is not a sex indicator, it indicates the fish is missing it's anal fin - either through ingjury or generitcal deficency. I'm pretty sure the fish is perfectly fine without this fin, but unless I've missed some major point in fish anatomy, this fin is present in ALL Loricariidae (plecos).

Yes, all loricariids normally have anal fins.

fish 1 - female
fish 2 - male
fish 3 - female
fish 4 - male

HTH
Chuck

I hope you're right! Two pairs would be awesome! Especially if they actually both hook up!! I need to get the baby factories going. Do they all look like they are breeding age to you?