PlanetCatfish.com

Hi all,
I recently imported some wild Lake Tanganyikan Synodontis.
They came in as mixed species from Crocodile Island, Zambia.

These I think these are S. polli
This one I suspect is a large female?

I these I think are males and show a green cast to them



This one has me stumped, I think its looks like S. tanganyicae but it does not match up to some of the pics you have here.





Any ideas or comments appreciated

I do not have too much time to look but will look closer later...

First one is ...it is a male

Second is polli as well, can not tell sex

The other species could very well be the long adipose fin and long sloping snout,also does not have the high back of say a first is a male can not say for other.Will look closer at this one for sure later with papers in hand.

Of course as with many shipped fish they look like they could use a meal or two.

Birger

I think you added another picture...this is the one is a male of this species.

Hi Mike

I hope you're keeping well. Nice to see you here at PC.

There is an awful lot of confusion about the ID's of tanganyicae irsacae etc and there may well be unidentified species in the lake which are similar to those that are described. These 2 species seldom make it to the uk with definite ID's so it'll perhaps be tricky to say what they are for sure. They are different to the tanganyicae that i had from you the other year though which i was pretty certain was indeed Tanganyicae. I have a very similar specimen to the ones pictured & has remained a "long, lean" fish, so i believe it may be unidentified (unless we have been incorrectly id-ing one of the known species that is seldom seen???)

I hope this makes sense?

Hi Richard,
nice to bump into you again

Some of the pics in the S. irsacae match what I have,

The top fish has the same long head and 'slinky' body proportions.
The body on these is reminiscent of petricola but not as deep as the tanganyicae you took last year.
I'm not sure myself if they are tanganyicae.
The larger fish show a nice clean white background with clear black spots so they are potentially very pretty fish.
I'll see if I can get some more pics of these fish put up but there are 35 fish in the tank at the moment and none of em will stay still for very long!
I also suspect some of the polli are different as well.

With species like Lucipinnis, Ilebrevis, Irsacae & Grandiops only being described recently & their names not well known or in common usage it suggests to me that other species have been seen in imports which we try to pigeonhole against named species although they are actually undescribed. The fish you've had previously would be a good point in question, namely the fabulous little synos which had the commercial name "dhonti small spot". Quite clearly this is a separate species but but a described one. I genuinely believe that the lake has a lot to reveal to us yet.

I also suspect some of the polli are different as well.

We are still looking to identify for the catelog Synodontis ilebrevis
Which I think are close to S.polli

As suggested here http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... =8&t=30468

I agree with Richard ...there will still be many surprises from this lake. I am looking forward to hopefully having a conversation on this with Jeremy Wright at the convention in October.

Birger

Hey,

I have a single specimen of probably this species in my tank for about 2 years now. It hasn't grown at all. Absence of growth rull out S. tanganyicae I guess. My specimen is 7-8 cm TL.
Here is a photo of my fish - comes from vicinity of crocodile island as well.

http://www.suephoto.com/index.php/galeria/index/5/343

Evert van Ammelrooy mentioned few times when we have met that in shores of crocodile island are numerous species of synos which he has not seen anywhere in a lake.

Regards.

Worton,
thanks for the link
the pics on Sue Photo, how accurate are they?
Its looks like I have tanganyicae, ilebrevis, polli and irsacae.
So the original estimate of 4 species by the exporter maybe right.

Hey,

all catfishes and mastacembelidae on Sue's page were identified by me in most cases after posting photos here and shorter or longer discussion, which in not obvious species usually ended like "probably this" or "maybe that" - that's the way discussion about not common tanganyikan synos usually ends.' So catfishes on Sue's page shouldn't be threated like 100% right ids. There are a lot of undescribed species in a lake and probably they are still during the creation phase in Lake Tanganyika - we won't be always able to say what is what and we just have to live with that . In last few years I've met few persons that regulary visit lake Tanganyika and they always says that there is much more species than a hobbyst may be aware of. Good rule is to avoid hybridisation in aquarium, so keep familiary looking species in different tanks.

Also in cichlids cases exporters are interested in some varieties of particular species because they sell the best - for example N. leleupi - there is a lot of spotted specimens in a lake but we see only yellows - they sell much better than dull colored, spotted fish. In catfishes exporters do not know much more than that syno granulosus is expensive and multipunctata will sell for sure so we may see more different varieties than in cichlids.

Anyway you have nice synos - enjoy them .

Have you seen this movie about breeding S. polli?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9Eq-mL-hIE
it will give you an idea how they may spawn.

I have a lot of reservations about the ID of Ilebrevis - the pic in Seegars looks very different (presuming that fish is accurately ID'd in the first place, which i'd hope it was), particularly headshape. I haven't got a copy of the '06 paper describing it to hand at present

I have a lot of reservations about the ID of Ilebrevis - the pic in Seegars looks very different (presuming that fish is accurately ID'd in the first place, which i'd hope it was), particularly headshape. I haven't got a copy of the '06 paper describing it to hand at present

This is the one we still have the most trouble with of the described species...and am with you on the reservations,with the few questionable pics in Seegers (still a good book though) like I mentioned hope to bug Jeremy Wright on this and see about a photo(live)or some such thing to help us out.

Birger

OK I have this beastie that came in with the polli, any ideas?


I have split the 'polli' looking fish into 3 tanks as there seems to be maybe 3 diff syno's mixed up. I used the fin markings, I will try and get pics up soon of the other 2 types.
But at the moment its gone all spotty in the fish room, think I have 7 ID'd species and maybe 2 more of the Tanganyikan flock of Syno.

What is the size of the above "beastie"?

What makes you believe this fish is different than a mature S. polli?(which you probably know look different than immature fish)

Synodontis ilebrevis also can be confused with Synodontis polli, I will soon be getting properly identified images for the Cat-eLog.

Birger

The fish above is 12cm long, but it has a different head profile to the rest of the fish in the tank of the same size.
The fish below is typical of the 6 other fish in the tank with a longer head profile.

Then there is this fish (which I have 2 specimens of)
(sorry about the pic quality these are hard fish to get pics of)

I think it will really take some time to see differences we can use to reliably tell these fish apart but this is great that you have pictures of these fish, I am still trying to work things out for myself using your pictures.

In case you do not have the revision you can find it here http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/bulletin/vol46no4lores.pdf

You can see the difference in spot size in the pictures in the revision
Also they have different profiles in these same pictures as you mentioned about yours
S.polli is larger by 30 mm---polli 180mmTL---ilebrevis 150mmTL
other differences between thes two similar fish mentioned...of course we could not see if there is or is not a hind-gut chamber without operating...
Birger

The gut difference may indicate different diet. So, behaviour might also help with live fishes.

Jools

Thanks for that link, thats a great paper to have to hand

I'll get a macro lense on the camera and take some better shots, try and get the humeral process in more detail.