Has anyone got a pic of LDA097 Megalancistrus sp?

[Jools]

I am reviewing this genus and adding some data. It would help if I knew what this thing was? Could you post a scan of it or email me? Anyone? Please?

Jools

[Jools]

Best I can find so far is page 20 of this: Rio São Francisco bei Petrolina, Bahia und Pernambuco
Brasilien

At least I now know what it is.

Jools

[matthewfaulkner]

Is this one? The middle picture, click on the second link on the left hand table (I can't link directly to page for some reason). The translated version of the page says its from the Rio Sao Francisco.

http://aquafin.web.infoseek.co.jp/

[Borbi]

Hi,

that should be what we also know as Megalancistrus sp. "Rio Sao Francisco" over here.
I´ve got some rather crappy pictures of those by my current standards - some picture manipulation wouldn´t help either - but if the ID basis (same river) is sufficient for you, I could contribute those (better resolution and without copyright, of course):


Megalancistrus sp. "Rio Sao Francisco", approx. 30cm SL.


Portrait, same specimen.


Dentition, same specimen.

Notably, these fish differ from M. parananus not only somewhat in coloration, but also in dentition:

Dentition, Megalancistrus parananus, approx. 25cm SL.

M. parananus presents considerably fewer teeth per jaw, and that is not only a characteristic of these two specimen.

Again, if quality and ID basis is sufficient, let me know and I´d happily contribute them.

Cheers, Sandor

[Jools]

Janne has been helping me with this too. There are four

Megalancistrus

exported. Three are from the Rio Sao Franciso. There is...

Megalancistrus barrae

LDA097

and another one. Either LDA097 or the other one is called Dragon Hi Fin and, surprise surprise, has a tall dorsal fin.

What I need to find out is, is LDA097 the hi fin one.

Jools

[Borbi]

Hi Jools,

first, here´s a translation of the initial introduction of LDA97:

LDA97 originates from Petrolina at the Rio Sao Francisco. The species is easily identified as Megalancistrus. This species is different from M. barrae from the same river in displaying numerous small black spots on the body and in the fins, while M. barrae presents a pattern of wavy lines. The adult size of this species should exceed half a meter.

A (low quality) picture can be found on page 20 here:
http://www.aqualog.de/news/news_pdfen/news75d.pdf

that is also the original source of the above translation. The displayed specimen displays, how appropriate, a damaged dorsal fin.

Now to the topic:
I (personally) believe that LDA 97, what I termed M. sp. "Rio Sao Francisco" above and the "Dragon High Fin" are one and the same fish, with the "Dragon High Fin" being the oldest and trade name.
As a first indicator, most really large Megalancistrus I saw have quite a tall dorsal. In addition, there might be some sexual dimorphism in it.

And as a more specific comparison, upon examination of pictures of a fish imported as "Dragon High Fin":
http://www.amazon-exotic-import.de/Gall ... eopard.htm

with pictures of M. sp. "Rio Sao Francisco"
http://www.l-welse.com/reviewpost/showp ... 046/cat/57

I don´t seem to find truly significant differences in coloration as well as dorsal fin size.

But, as said above, that is my personal observations..
Cheers, Sandor

[Jools]

Sandor,

On the http://www.amazon-exotic-import.de/Gall ... eopard.htm link, the top one looks like LDA097 and the bottom one the "hi fin", haha! I would be inclined to think they are maybe sexual differences too, except that the LDA097 look likes males and females in the pics I've seen. And if they were exported from the same place but that is apparently not the case (yes, Rio São Francisco, no to same site).

Going backwards, current thinking is that L113=L234. However, does anyone have the original picture (my copy is out on loan)? From memory L234 is shown out of water and has a bright background colour indicating a Rio São Francisco fish. If that were true then L234=LDA097.

I would like to use your pictures, could you email them?

Jools

[hotchiliz]

Hi all, Im not sure if i am correct. We Asians especially categories them into four different species: L113, L234, M.cf barrae and "Azzura" - a termed by the Japs that refer to a black spiny M. species.


This is the Azzura that they refered to and no L-numbers was assigned at that time, Year 2007. So when i saw the updates, i am wandering if they are the same species as posted under cf barrae.



These are the M.cf barrae that they normally refered as. They differentiate barrae and L234 by the shape of the head and the spottings on the body. Where barrae has a sharper triangular head shape and a wormy-line spottings as compared with L234 which has a rounder head and regular round spots.


L113, notice the fan-shaped dorsal and the big round spots...

Somehow, it reminds me if they are simply the same species but different colour variation especially for their so-called Azzura and the cf barrae in this trade, as compared to those pics posted here.

* Appologies for the badly-taken pics, they were from my holiday trip to Hongkong in 2007.

[Borbi]

Hi,

I would identify your pictures as follows:
-1st one is genuine M. barrae, they are quite dark with a wormline like pattern, if visible at all.
-2nd and 3rd is the species we are discussing here, M. sp. "LDA97" (M. sp."Rio Sao Francisco").
-4th is the "real" M. parananus, which has the L-Numbers L 113/L 234.

Cheers, Sandor

[hotchiliz]

Hi borbi,

How are the Barrae different from this LDA97?
We always believed that barrae are yellowish in coloration and they tend to turn dull in a confined dark environment. This is always very disappointing to observed by most hobbyist here.Their strong yellowish (golden) coloration is how we differentiate between L234 in our shipments here in Singapore or even Hongkong and Taiwan. Or are such strong coloration a form of stressed or dominance?

Do you think that these are just trade names where importers categories individual species by coloration so that they could market a better premium for it?

I do somehow get "misleaded" by such information sometimes.

[Janne]

This is what we export as L234 M. parananus "Dragon High Fin".
20 cm TL, nice round spots.

35 cm TL, with nice round spots but little darker in colour.

The pictures at Amazon-exotic and the M. cf. barrae above show the same species that we export as M. barrae "Super Dragon High Fin" and is not the same species as my pictures above.

The black one we export as M. etentaculatus "Black Spiny Ashiura".

All 3 from Rio Sao Francisco.

Janne

[Jools]

I am beginning to understand this.

Jools

[Jools]

So, it seems there is a mistake with L234 in DATZ. When I say a mistake, I mean more likely misinformation. The fish shown in DATZ for L234 is clearly the same as that which Janne posts and is the light brown background, dark spots species from the RSF. Janne's second picture with the fish out of water is remarkably similar to the original in DATZ! Nobody knows such a fish from the Parana.

That DATZ says it is from Parana is either because they made a mistake or the exporters concerned made a mistake or indeed commercial sensitivity was at play and somebody didn't want the real locality published.

Bottom line is that I am going to split out

L234

from "synonymy" with

L113

and document why in the species entry.

Jools

[Jools]

I will review this in the morning with a fresh coffee and a clear head, but I think I have everything in place now and the data up-to-date. Let me know meantime if anyone spots anything needing changing.

Jools

[Jools]

OK, I think this is now resolved with all species entries in the genus amended. Please shout if you think otherwise anyone!

Thanks as well, a great international team effort!

Cheers,

Jools

[Linus_Cello]

If anyone in the US is interested in an "L234 Dragon high fin" (or is this also mis-identified?):

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/ ... 1279214405