Illegalizing private fish sales in Sweden...

König Löwe · Post by **König Löwe** » 01 Sep 2003, 20:08

Well, It seems some new laws has been passed in Sweden, which basically means this:

1. Noone may sell fish in more than 10 "cases"* each year without getting a permit from the the local municipality. In other words, a person cannot sell 11 guppies to 11 different buyers, but a can perfectly well sell 100 discus worth thousands of euros to one person. Such a permit will probably cost in the area of 200-250 Euros.

2. You may not take care of more than six aqariums owned by another person without taking a class (?) of 32 hours alltogether.

*A "case" is making a sale of fish to one person, apparently within a short period of time. A "case" is not selling fish at say an auction, if you sell fish to 11 different persons this is not one "case", it is eleven and if you have no permit, you are a criminal.

The law comes innto effect sometime in december this year, from what I can understand, but stores does not have to have this said permit/training untill the year 2005. An exception is made from 1. if the fish sold is feeder-fish.

What is there to say about this law? Probably made to make sure people working in fish stores/wholesalers know what their doing, but It allso many of the people who breed fish more than once each year and don't keep everything...

Imagine a large dark cellar somewhere outside of Stocholm... a hundred aquarists has gathered to participate in a secret auction... And it starts... Fish is sold, people are happy that they can still make good sales and purchases... Suddently the doors are busted open and police storms in and starts arresting aquarists... They will probably be fined, the person(s) that arranged the auctiong mat get some harsher punishment...

This is not a likely situation, but with this horrible law, It acctually is possible... Myself, I'm just waiting for some petition aggainst this to sign, even though I'm a norwegian...

I only have sources in swedish
http://www.ciklid.se/djurskyddslag.pdf
http://www.zoopet.com/akvarium/forum/to ... C_ID=13821

Post by **Silurus** » 01 Sep 2003, 20:12

I wonder what brought that on? Is there an illicit fish trade in Sweden so big that the government has decided to step in?

König Löwe · Post by **König Löwe** » 01 Sep 2003, 20:55

You mean black market fish sales? That's VERY hard to believe... No, I think the reason is that the authorities want to make sure that people who sell fish at some scale qualified for this. But they put the number waaaay to low, and I think an auction should count as one "case"... I wonder if it's not really enough to make sure people who keep many tanks and sell fish at a LARGE scale are required to take this special class...

I feel that generally, if you are able to breed fish (and subsequently sell them), you probably know more than enough about fishkeeping, and don't need some special education. BUT, if you buy fish and then just sell them again (on a certain scale), then OK, they should take a class and get a permit, since this is really the defintion of a fish store...

Many "serious" aquarists in both Norway and Sweden feel that people working at fish stores should be required to take some sort of class to teach them proper fishkeeping and a basic whats what (this a red tail, it'll go perfectly well with your neons. Very pretty)

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 01 Sep 2003, 21:18

Hey! Interesting topic!

I find it very hard to be negative about this when you have so many irresponsible shops and aquarists.

I know I am not facing this situation in my country, but I LOVE the idea of covert fish auctions!

Does the law say anything about bartering? I.E. I will give you 3 or my zebra pleco fry for 100 sterbai - for keeping at home, not selling on?

What about fish you buy outside of the country?

Jools

König Löwe · Post by **König Löwe** » 01 Sep 2003, 21:25

Well, I don't think the swedish "security service" has agents working undercover to make sure swedes dont sell too much fish outside of the country if that's what you're asking...

I don't think the law really effects BUYING fish, just selling them.

They probably forgot to ask anyone who knows the trade before making this law... Some simple changes would make it a lot more friendly to fish-keeping...

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 01 Sep 2003, 21:57

Although hard to police I would at least like to see some differentation made between wild caught and farmed fish.

Jools

S. Allen · Post by **S. Allen** » 01 Sep 2003, 23:38

eh, I dunno... I prefer wild fish... even if we're not talking species that are inbred for characteristics... you still get a lot of screwy fish that wouldn't have made it in nature if you go with pond bred....

babydragon149 · Post by **babydragon149** » 02 Sep 2003, 02:44

I was over in Germany not too long ago, and I visited numerous pet shops. I thought that they were all kept well. (They passed wal-mart's care for sure!) This law doesn't really make sense to me, but maybe it is for a reason we don't see yet. Or.. maybe they just want more tax money!
babydragon149

König Löwe · Post by **König Löwe** » 02 Sep 2003, 07:34

I doubt it... The local authorities are probably overworked as it is, they are not able too keep up on controlls of the various fish stores that are present allready, so if they have to start issuing thousands of permits from new years... They will have severe problems...

Post by **Janne** » 02 Sep 2003, 22:45

If you did'nt know it before...they love to make new rules and laws in this country without thinking, we are the champions when it comes to that but we just ignore them.
No one will have the time or economy to control that we are living after this new laws like many of other rules and laws in this country...only if the famous Swedish envy on others will turn someone in to the authoritie they will act in some way.
Some laws are better then others but this one will not make any different for the aquarist. Even this new law about pet shops that they have to be educated to sell fish or other animals was a good idea but not enough, it's enough if one have this certificate in the shop..the other 4 or 5 does not need it...if you have 10 shops it's still enough if one have the certificate. And it's not any different now after that it was before this new laws.

Janne

babydragon149 · Post by **babydragon149** » 04 Sep 2003, 01:54

I can think of a few laws here in Canada which weren't thought out very well. Too bad most people can't see into the future a ways to understand what some of the consequences of their actions may be.

doctorzeb · Post by **doctorzeb** » 04 Sep 2003, 10:45

Jools wrote:
Does the law say anything about bartering?

Jools, I take that was meant to bartering and not "battering"........sorry

Konig, I can just see it now, walking into a pub with a large brown overcoat, and pulling out half a dozen bags of your (soon to be ) baby zebras.

Seriously, I can see the logic around it, but it WILL be impossible to police for the normal bloke on the street selling his fry. The LFS gets a better deal buying from "joe Bloggs" than the supplier, so he's not going to report anything!

rob

König Löwe · Post by **König Löwe** » 05 Sep 2003, 14:59

The four largest sites for tropical fish in Sweden have joined forces and have started this site for those who wish to object on these new laws. From what I've been told, foreigners can allso sign it, I sure did.

By signing this, you agree with the text inside the "box". Sorry, I don't have the energy to translate right now ;)

The three fields you fill inn translates innto:

Top: Your full name

Middle: Your E-mail

Bottom: Comments

http://www.akvarieguiden.nu/protest/

Illegalizing private fish sales in Sweden...

Illegalizing private fish sales in Sweden...

Germany.

new laws/ no thinking