PlanetCatfish.com

Hi all!

It's been ages since I've been here and I'd dearly appreciate some stocking advice.

The last time I was here I think I was just managing RA/Fibro, mostly, but this last year's been wicked--Lupus, Sjogren's, bad Anemia, really bad Vit. D deficiency...all sorts of stuff that wear me out and, apparently, weaken my muscles some. Back when it was primarily RA I knew the rheumatologist would want me on an immunosuppressent (he still does) which might make water changes/gravel vacs/filter cleans a bit harder---my solution? I bought a "55 G",a Rena XP3, Hydor ETH heater, Hydor aerator/light, lots of good driftwood, etc. thinking that the bigger the tank, the easier it'll be...so long as I understock a bit.

This little fish palace houses only one fish: Minnie, the BN Pleco. We've only run into 2 problems: being so sick, I haven't had the energy (or money) to get Minnie some tankmates; secondly, the XP3 I got second-hand with the 55 stopped on Christmas Eve, when I ran out and got a brand-new filter, however, Miss Minnie's tail was clamped by then. She's been babied ever since, but that dorsal fin still isn't "brand new" and she swims a bit slower and more hesitantly.

So, that's where I'm starting out. There's a "55 G" tank (which, in reality, only holds about 44 gallons of water before substrate or decor, so that'd shave it back to holding maybe 38 *true* gallons of water in there.) Ideally I'd like to under-stock a bit, maybe to the tune of having only 30-40% capacity.

Here's what I'm thinking: I don't want Miss Min to feel too intimidated or invaded by new fish. I know she likes otos. She came to me with another BN pleco, Ish, who passed away last year. I'd love for her to get some of her swimming confidence back, I'd also love another bn pleco, but she's already doing such a great job cleaning the tank walls I wonder if this would be too much. Other fish I've considered: upside down catfish, betta (more than one if I can find peaceful females,) corys... I've looked at lots of livebearers (the stock and trade of petstores,) here's the thing: I *love* seeing "new born" fry of any species and cheer them on, but...it rends me emotionally to see how painfully livebearers seem to die, so much more so than other fish. I've even considered danios (leopard, maybe,) even though as minnows they're a bit higher than usual in the ammonia-producing department.

My dream tank would be full of personality, full of long-lived, happy, peaceful fish with variety and color, some fish visible in the daytime as well as at night (maybe even fish who like learning to do tricks to enrich their lives.) A tank not so over-run with fry that suddenly I'm *far* beyond capacity and worn out before I begin. Am I asking for the impossible? (it feels like it, lol!)

Please do me a kindness and suggest to me how you'd stock this tank (the timing's ideal as many fish are on sale for the next week or two.) I've been bouncing ideas off the AqAdvisor website for general suggestions, but this being a tank that begins/centers on a catfish I thought I'd start here where I've gotten so much good advice before

Thank you so very much!
moonbunny (and Minnie)

Sorry to hear about your health problems...

Sounds like a decent plan to go for a larger tank and lower stocking level certainly makes the maintenance a bit easier - and certainly helps the wellbeing of the fish themselves. A python water changer is (supposedly) excellent for those "low work" water changes - it's a device that syphons water almost effortlessly out of your tank - it may be worth looking into. And a big canister filter certainly need much less maintenance than the internal filters.

It is quite hard to get a tank that is low stock and still quite lively - it is POSSIBLE, but it's not very easy.

If you want easy to keep and long lived fish, go for Corys. There are many different species, but with a few exceptions they are all easy to keep.

Danios tend to last a couple of years or a bit more if you are lucky and look after them well. Rainbowfish grow to relatively large size, long lived, and they are often very colourful and attractive, as well as being relatively "easy going", so that may be an option for your tank. A group of 5 or so is a probably about right - somewhat depending on the species - some grow bigger than others, so a small species you may be able to keep a few more. As a general rule, they prefer hard/alkaline water.

For a nocturnal addition, perhaps a single small or species would be a good choice - just be careful that you get something that doesn't grow too large. also has some small species in the genus, but they are "messy" in that they eat wood, and that clogs up filters and make a mess of the inside of the tank with "sawdust".

Upside down cats are nice fish too - just make sure you get and not one of the larger species in the genus [almost all of the other species are larger, and the other small ones are very rare in the trade].

I'd stay away from livebearers - as attractive as they are in some respects, they are also very "productive" in the offspring department, so there is no doubt they will end up taking up all available space in the tank and then some...

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Mats

I'd agree with Mat that corys would be a great addition. A school of 5 or more would certainly be active and have tons of personality. The only issue is they don't bring much color to a tank as a typical rule. I have a male betta in with my pandas and they get along quite well. Between the antics of the cory and the betta's gold and red coloring, its just about perfect.

Howsabout an African river biotope?
A big shoal of congo tetras for colour and movement, together with a group of peaceful synodontis, such as , or . None of them are too delicate a fish.
I look forward to seeing what you fish you decide on.

[Mod edit: add full species name and clog tags for easy reference --Mats]

Thanks guys!

You speak words of such commonsense wisdom I've been crunching the numbers over at AqAdvisor.com (which is fairly accurate, you take a few bits of salt,) and here's what I've figured out so far:

Presuming my so-called "55G" aquarium has a realistic water volume of about 40-44 gallons and all the measurements been done in decorations included, here are a few suggested combos of fish followed by their respective bio-load given the filter and all kept in mind:

(Starting at the most pathetically bare...)
At 34% capacity: just Minnie and 1 Oto.
At 36% capacity: Minnie plus 4 Emerald/green Cory cats.
At 39% capacity: Minnie plus for Emerald Cory cats and 1 Oto.
At 40% capacity: Minnie +6 Otos.
At 42% capacity: Minnie plus 2 Emerald Corys and 2 UDCs.
At 45% capacity: Minnie plus 3 UDCs + 2 Emerald Corys.
At 47% capacity: Minnie plus 4 UDCs.
At 50% capacity: Minnie + 3 Emerald Corys + 3 UDCs

AqAdvisor seems to think that a betta of either gender would likely fin nip Minnie (I'm not sure why as I've only ever had really peaceful bettas, unless it was 4 females in a "10 G.") Considering their low bio-load, just a little partial to them : ) But what you think?

Also,I see that Emerald Corys are less fecund than other Corys which might help regarding population control in the tank.

And it's probably foolish of me, but am fond of any combo with UDCs... it's so cute and unusual -- same reasons I fell in love with Bristlenose plecos (Sad to say but true, but if the opportunity ever presented itself... or if we could figure it out here, I'd love another little pleco, too.)

I have pics of the tank (I just need to figure out how to post them.) The tank really does look bare (a few artificial plants have been reserved for the quarantine tank,) but it is going to be spruced up with some bright hanging tunnels (the vote is still out as to whether these are gaudy or a good idea, but with ghost houses fetching $8/each and I got these Tiki glasses for only $2, I'm thinking I could live with the eccentricity, LOL. )

Also as you can probably see from the pictures (when I post them,) I have a knack for growing plants that I haven't had much luck doing so in an aquatic setting, so I may end up augmenting with yet more either plastic or so plants for inside the tank. Although, dream of dreams, I hope to someday grow a waterlily to grace the water's surface )

I value your knowledge and opinions and looking forward to hearing what you might suggest next

Thank You again and again...
bunny

I just tried one of my tanks in AqAdvisor, and whilst I think it's right that I'm at 129% stocking capacity and should do 53% water changes each week [without adding the L128 that is in there, and I probably missed one or two other fishes], I don't think it's really a good way to determine how to stock a tank. [Oh, and I picked Synodontis notata, as there is no Synodontis decora in the list of fishes, and S. notata would be about the same size].

Breeding corys in a community tank with some swimming fish is definitely a difficult task, and I surely doubt that you'd breed ANY cory in a community tank without effort on your side - e.g. picking out the eggs and bringing them up in a breeding container, so I don't think it matters that much which one you choose from the long list of Corys that are at least sometimes available in the trade. But yes, is not easy to breed.

--
Mats

Also, Corys and Otos should be kept in groups of at least 5. And I would suggest that you don't keep Otos with Ancistrus - they compete for the same food, and if you haven't got much algae growth, one of them will starve - and that's the Oto, because it's less able to compete.

--
Mats

I have a male crown tail betta in with polka dot loaches, BNs and swordtails - they all live happily together. I think a Betta would do fine, especially as you love them too. Best thing would be to try and buy a betta who is already sharing a tank with other fish - watch for a while to see how he behaves with them. They can be aggressive, depends on the individual fish. ( mine likes to be hand fed *rolls eyes* )

Here's the tank as it sits... (true, it's bare, but on the way to getting better )

I sympathize with your illness, but I applaud you for not allowing it to keep you from living your life.

I agree with your decision to go 'big' with the 55g. A canister filter is easiest for maintenance. And I have to agree with matsP: adding more loricarids could mean more work. More oto's or another ancistrus are competing for the same resources. Either you'll have to bump up your light to @2watts per gallon and/or augment their diet (zuchinni, spinach, carrots, sweet potato, etc).

A colorful group of small rasbora spp. and/or barbs ( you might avoid tiger barbs) could be an alternative. They are active during the day. As far as bettas go I have to agree with "summer": Weather a betta fin nips or not depends on the character of the individual betta. I've had some that wouldn't touch another fish it's size, but have had others that challenged anything it's size and bigger, that looked remotely like another betta. And I'm talking across gender.

I wouldn't invest 'all' my marbles in a calculator determining what your bio-load should be. Fish do all sorts of weird behavioral/biological things that have nothing to do with a calculator.

You could also have a auto changer installed on a sump system, if you have the time and the money. And I do love my "python".

Have fun.

(Big Smile!) What I wouldn't give for an auto-changer, naturalart! I've been drooling over them in the catalogs, lol!

Also, true re: the calculator...I've already found one big fix it'll need

So true, MastP...I hadn't thought about it, but the new tank has *is clean* with only a tiny smidge of dt algae on a shell (I guess I could always add more shells if need be...of course, I've read that the less that's in the tank the better the filter works, too...The old tank, the "20 L" always had dt algae, so the one or 2 otos did well with the 2 Ancistrus. Btw...I love your explanation of "sawdust" --I must be catfish-heady as I just vac it a little more and am happy just having a healthy little cat...sure it's crazy!)

I'm *adoring* the idea of having so much color and variety in the tank (I just have to really keep maintenance at a minimum due to loosing a bit of muscle strength and just getting tired too often...actually, it's my "normal," but I don't want it to be to the detriment of my fish.) Actually, that's partly why I was so fond of having bn's and otos together--it was like having little maids of the tank (save for the "sawdust.)

Could the tank *handle* having both 5 Corys and 5 UDCs *plus* Minnie? Or would it be better as an either-or: Corys or UDCs, then one more "interest" fish--say a betta, or another "nocturnal" fish... Actually, here's a question that just popped into mind--I know how much muck and sawdust 2 BNs and 2 Otos made...Would any of the proposed tank combos produce a lot *less* muck and sawdust? That *would* help a lot. And smaller creatures, smaller bio-load...fewer Loricarids, less work? Even w/ Rainbows?

I've had Bettas and Corys together *so* many times--they're to amiable, so "considerate" and caring of each other...so maybe the Betta wouldn't nip at Minnie after all.

I *really* like the color on the Rainbowfish and I'm *hoping* I stumbled on some really wonky sites because they made them out to be *so* much more likely to get sick than any other fish...and in so many ways! Whereas Bettas, Corys, UDCs...are all listed as so hearty (which makes *so* much sense, esp. w/catfish!) Tell me I'm getting the wrong impression on the Rainbows b/c it's so nice to see all these fish, basically, thriving in Arizona tap water, with a hardness of 8 - 8.2.

(I've just read that UDCs, like Bettas, will take food from your hand, so that's a bonus...) I guess one of the next things to check out are the female to male ratios for all the species suggested...

(((((I can't tell you all how very much this means to me, except to say, "Oooh, how it does!" Checking in here every night honestly opens my eyes and helps me hone the selection and only info from people with real-life experience like yourselves really feels so true and trustworthy )))))

Here's how I've been doing water changes:
(As for water changes/cleaning, this *will* sound ridiculous: the taps here are un-accommodating re: a Python (I have one, bought it then, senselessly, got a nice spray head for the kitchen sink...one that would never work w/ a Python... So I'm making the best of bad eggs with a good suggestion or two: Into a wheeled garbage can, I siphon/clean until the can's about 1/4 -1/3 full, then into the kitchen sink I go, using an 80 gph fountain pump and a bit of Python hose to empty the water--just reverse the process for clean water )

Who knew it'd be such a to-do trying for health, peace and harmony? (O.k., I'm sure a lot of people, but *in an aquarium*...oh, my my!)

Look forward to hearing from you guys again (I'll keep researching in the meanwhile so I'm bringing something new to the party,)

***So appreciative***
bunny

Re: python: You don't by any chance have an outside tap that would work - and the used water from the tank is EXCELLENT for watering your garden, which I'm sure is a good thing in Arizona. And as long as you do frequent small changes of water rather than one big one, you should be OK to just fill up with tap-water - I expect the tap-water in Arizona is about 50-60'F anyways.

Rainbowfish are (for the most part) hardy fish and like your pH 8.2 fine. There are dwarf versions that grow to about 2 inches, such as Melanotaenia praecox.
--
Mats

(laughs)...I'm feeling dizzier than a Dervish!

And I keep coming back to the above catfish (although Peppered Corys are *so* beautiful, too!) I know I need to focus, but the other night when I was scoping out the local fish store my eyes settled on Dojo loaches, which then led me to wondering if I'd go Dojo or Kuhli loaches if loaches at all (despite their size, I'm interested in Dojos' ability to be sensitive to barometric changes, that would help me give my pup medicine before a storm comes up and scares her...although, I've read Kuhlis' will eat right out of your hand and have a very small bioload...and both have such a unique swimming style...See why my head's spinning? Lol! I guess my heard just bends toward the beautiful, nocturnal fish (big sigh.) I went in to check Rainbows out, but as of yet I haven't found any with personality behind their eyes, if that makes sense, although I'd really like to, so maybe I'll be off to another store tomorrow.

And, Oh! Does my tank ever look bare now that I see it as a picture! More driftwood, some kind of large cave maybe, are the bare minimum (along with Tiki tunnels, which look a bit garish, but fun.) *Ideally* I'd love to find some snail-free live plants to help hide the fun but colorful tunnel/tubes (but if snails would be a never-ending problem, I'd be o.k. with realistic silks, etc. (although one day I hope to grow a waterlily in there.) I checked out the moss/algae ball that's become so popular. It looks great for any potential fry, but does anyone know about these balls in relation to snails or evicting snails?

Maybe tomorrow I'll wake with a clearer head...meanwhile, any and all input would be heartily, and still *very* much appreciated♥

(All these choices, it's an embarrassing of riches!)

P.S. A curious question--I saw some pretty little carved soapstone figures at this little odds and ends shop. I'm guessing the answer is, "No. Definitely won't work--danger, danger!", but can you put soapstone in an aquarium?

(((Thank you all, so much, again!)))

Kuhli loaches look very nice, but I bet you will not see them other than POSSIBLY at feeding time if you keep them in a tank with a substrate (and doing otherwise is bad for them, as they don't like NOT being able to hide in the sand).

Dojo Loach is really not a tropical fish - it's a subtropical fish, and would prefer a lower temperature in the winter - down to about 50'F in the tank. The rest of the suggested fish are tropical, so you don't want them to "freeze", which would be what they end up with if you drop the temperature below somewhere around 70'F.

Peppered corys are nice, but there are actually a lot nicer ones that are frequently available [in my opinion].

--
Mats

Oh boy! Who knew fish stocking could be so tense (I'm having a nice cup of tea now, though ) But I think I have it narrowed down, so please tell me what you think...

As to fish...You guys have convinced me, no Dojos, and no Kuhlis for now. I'd *adore* being able to put another BN in with Minnie, but I don't know how she'd take to another, so...wild ambitions aside (sigh!)...it definitely looks like it'll be a predominantly catfish tank.

Here's what I'm thinking (tell me what you think): Minnie does a great job keeping big surfaces algae free, but she's always relied on having an Oto or two to do the detailing...and...Otos are on sale for $1 each. I've a nice glass food bowl in there already, making it easier to contain supplemental algae tabs, so that should help. As to Otos, I'm thinking maybe 3-5?

Then Corys (I have another low glass bowl I can fill with sand for them to play in)....The store downtown said they'll be getting in Panda Corys again soon @ $5.99, so maybe a couple of those...Peppered Corys are cute @ $4.99...all kinds of Cory options are open there. I'm thinking it might be nice to have a little shoal of mixed Corys--like a little cluster of jewels

And every time I've had a betta they've loved the companionship of a Cory.

In time, likely a group of Upside Down Catfish (because they just look like playful little kids,) and after that, anything goes

So, I'm thinking about just phasing the above in a bit at a time...about every 6 weeks once everyone's had a chance to have a stay in the "20 L" QT tank and come out with a clean bill of health (which is kind of perfect because it'll give me time to pretty-up the big tank

Overall, I'd like to keep the tank *very* lightly stocked to make caring for it easier. For now the biggest things I'm trying to juggle are numbers for comfortable shoals, male/female ratios as well as how to handle possible population blooms...

...a crazy little catfish tank...whew!

So, what do you think?

Thank you over and over again!

Bunny

I'd get at least 6 of the Otos. You can expect a few of them to die, if they come from a regular LFS, and you ideally should have a group of more than 3 when finished.

Both panda and peppered corys prefer slightly lower temperatures - no higher than mid 70'F - what temperature is your tank/home at the moment? There are many corys that like slightly higher temperatures.


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Mats